I've been around the block a few times and the only problem I see with casual sex outside of the potential to wander into the STD zone is that often one person gets attached because they allowed themselves to consider a relationship a viable option. Just so it's clear, when in a relationship I've always been a very committed fella, but when single I was very much the playboy. Even still, I've always insisted on being honest with anyone that it seemed I was about to get physical with. Whether it was to tell them that I have no interest in pursuing a deeper relationship with them or that I was currently hooking up with a few other girls. I feel as long as everyone involved understands the depths of what they are getting into and what to expect out of it then all is well. My big problem was always when someone changed the rules. often my naturally attentive and affectionate side led girls to believe that the dynamic had changed regardless of how many times we discussed otherwise. The end result is that I was viewed as the uncaring asshole even if they were the initiator and the definer of the rules. As someone who in my younger years had fought to keep the virginity of more than a few girlfriends/flings intact, as well as fighting the good fight to keep my own, (held out 18 and 1/2 years - you'd count the half too if you fought as hard as I did to keep it) I well understand the importance of sex. The thing is time and experience has taught me that it's not sex that has the greatest meaning, it's who you choose to share your heart with. If you can't separate those two things than it's easy for lust to fool you into believing that it's love. Just my two cents. PS. Children being left with a broken family are not formed solely by the act of having sex, they are more specifically the results of: people not understanding the difference between love and lust - (time and protection is the cure for this) people blaming each other for the stress they feel since having a baby - (effort and forgiveness is the key) someone changing the no baby agreement - (this is an ensnarement technique by the desperate, doomed to fail) a society that feels that they don't have to take responsibility for their decision to have a child (these are the shitty people) I would argue that 90% of consensual casual sex results in good clean fun with no negative or long lasting effects.
I said that the effects of casual sex are undeniable. Whether or not it is a problem to the same degree as in America doesn't mean anything. I would say the same thing to Preacher's post. It's all fine and dandy that you guys have had great experiences, but that means almost nothing to me. I'm not trying to be rude here, but all of your fundamental arguments so far are based on nothing but anecdote. That's a lot different if I were to try and debase your perspective by saying "ahh you just think that because you're from the netherlands you wouldn't get it." That's pretty much identity politics, and it's really disappointing. @Preacher001 Broken families, particularly single mothers, are absolutely a direct effect of casual sex. The guy, and probably the girl, wants some action, and end up with a kid. The guy can then either bail or commit, but he'll likely choose to bail because it was just that - casual - he never intended on having a relationship. Oh yeah, and there's a third option. Abortion. Yay casual sex is fun!!! Also, let's just say that the guy isn't a scumbag and chooses to commit. Okay, that's great, but there's a problem. Relationships forged in the fires of mistake and regret aren't likely to last, and usually end in divorce, which isn't good for anyone, least of all the kid. Finally, we can talk all day about ifs, but you know what I say to that? If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas. It's great to talk about the many potential successes of humankind, but It unfortunately doesn't really translate to what actually happens out there in the real world.
Well if our experiences mean nothing, the other continent or country doesn't have a merit wtf are we even talking about? Isn't this just pushing your ways unto who ever disagrees? Even half a world away? I'm turning in btw. Nice talking to you. (No sarcasm)
What? It's like you're not reading my posts at all and injecting into them what you think they say. I literally never said that "the other continent or country doesn't have a merit." This is genuinely confusing me. I'm sorry if you think that I'm pushing my views onto you but I really don't think that's what has happened. I'll try to make this as simple as I can. Let's say there's this country that experiences absolutely NO war. There's none of it. The curriculum teaches all about it but the citizens never participate in it, because it can lead to unjust death. So then I ask, is war not a problem? Everyone in this imaginary land is completely safe from war, so is it still a poor behavior that can potentially lead to death or isn't it? Is casual sex a poor behavior that can potentially lead to fatherless homes and unfortunately unwanted children or isn't it? Even if you don't experience the effects of something, can it still be bad? That much seems obvious to me. I would say that even if there was a utopia where nobody felt the effects of war, that war would still be a bad thing that hurts other parts of the world. The exact same thing is true for casual sex (although I'm not willing to concede that the netherlands has felt no effects from this practice. I think people make the mistake of normalizing casual sex in all parts of the world, but probably not to the same degree as America) The fundamental question lies at the feet of the effects of the practice, and nowhere else. Not your location, not what you see or have experienced. The same goes for my own location or personal experiences. I'm arguing for something at a broad level of analysis.
What's there to conserve, these days? we are safe from all threats; there is the welfare state, there is the army, there are condoms, medicine, treatments, family court, custody proceedings, legislated maternity leave, child support, diets, clothing, pills, abortion clinics... you don't have to worry at all about D I V O R C I N G your sex life from your romantic life - and yet at the cellular level your body does not know that. And you probably will never be able to teach it that. Harmless fun, sure, in the short term. But what happens when the chickens come home to roost? When you can no longer land a quality man to raise kids with? Who will you (‘liberated’ Woman) be bitter towards? When you can no longer find a hot enough guy to spend the weekend with? When you can no longer bond, empathize, or love? Also @Xandrith, I wouldn’t deny the woman agency in her choice of men for childbearing or harmless fun. Women engaging in the NUÇÇ activity are just as destructive as the men, and by implicitly blaming the man (scumbag) you ignore that the woman decided (vast vast vast majority) to spend her eggs and oxytocin on him.
"The other holes don't create life. I don't mind - but I can't condone this way of life." -Current Dalai Lama on newer sexual practices
Oh yeah, I understand and agree. I just have an especially fiery outlook towards men who do these things because I'm old fashioned enough to still believe that the primary responsibility of men is responsibility itself. Also, I did already talk about women who sleep around and tweet Bible verses inbetween NUÇÇ sessions if you didn't catch that lol
Textbook example - not saying this in a mean way, it just saddens me to see this play out so effortlessly in your words. You see the problem, but then go an say it is fine because we're ****ed anyway. Don't **** around (literally) and you'll be able to demand the same standard from your future wife. Maybe you can be good enough to her that she can look past your sexual history, recognize your growth (if you have grown), and respect you all the more for it, but you will have to put in the work on yourself before meeting the girl. Casual sex requires broken (i.e. nothing fixed or agreed upon) relationships to flourish; whether that is broken, open, unlabeled, one-night-stands, polyamory, dishonesty, deceit, use, abuse, projection of self-hatred, or an inability to self-regulate. And in doing so, the practice is spread like a mind virus among the susceptible, who just so happen to be surrounded by cheap and easy means of procuring (tinder, alcohol, clubs, even porn - that's a rabbit hole alright) or engaging in 'consequence-free' sexual encounters. It is a self-replicating pyramid scheme of emotional self-justification that will eventually hit some kind of wall, either social, financial, or biological in the case of women. The problem is that that wall regenerates every generation, and young women, as much as men, are taught that their actions have no consequences, because then they cannot hold their elders accountable for the mistakes they have made, and indeed pass on the same behavior that has so hurt them to the next generation. The West has been playing a game it can only hope to lose at for the last 300 years at least.
I usually stay out of discussions on forums because I believe debates are better in voice/person but for some reason I like to give my 2 cents. So first I want to establish a constant. Sex in General is Fun and Enjoyable. Thats a fairly universally established truth. So I will give a situation first and two obvious outcomes and then talk about it. Scenario Lets say two people meet each other and immediately they have an intrest in each other. They find each other attractive, funny, and enjoy each other company. They also find they have common intrest also. So basically your ideal situation. Now here we will split paths. Example A. So both people have had lots of casual sex and decide to have sex. Because of prior experiences they find the sex to not be as enjoyable and fun as previous experience not even close. Because of this and the nature of Sex being a big part of any relationship it doesn't work out. Example B. So both people have made the choice to not have sex and wait till a fully committed relationship. Eventually they decide that this relationship is the one that they will be in it forever and commit to each other. They have sex and because of the universal constant we established they have fun and enjoy it. So I don't know how often you guys do personal surveys but I have asked many people on each side of the debate in real life about there experiences. Then after cross referencing with big surveys done by others this is a accurate depiction of the debate. Conclusion. Mass Majority of people who wait till a fully committed relationship have enjoyable and fun sex with no bad experiences. This is because sex by nature is fun and enjoyable and with nothing to cross reference your experience with its fun and enjoyable. Those who have casual sex while have that fun more often, also recall bad experiences. As you seen in this thread alone there are many people who say "I wish I had waited" or something along that line because the downside to waiting (if any) is greatly outweighed by the downsides of casual. And this is only testing one aspect of waiting vs not. Thats my 2 cents.
Casual sex is fine when all individuals involved are on the same page. You may morally disagree with it, but that doesnt really matter.
**** whoever you want, believe in whatever you want. Who really can have the moral authority to tell you how to live life?
That may be, from a purely short term contractual standpoint. No one has disagreed on that, as far as I can tell. hOWevEr
I wasn't even making a moral argument, or at least not a reductionist argument I feel like nobody reads anything¯\_(ツ)_/¯
In my post I never once mentioned which one was morally correct. I simply did a science experiment and came to a conclusion based on the material. Now if you disagree with my situation I gave as example and the two outcomes then thats you and we can talk about that. BUT I never once said one was morally correct. I believe its our right to do what ever we want to do as long as it does not harm someone else. So if you and someone wants to have sex, fine and have fun. BUT There is a benefit and a huge one at that for waiting. @Dunco Was that a serious question and is it referring to masturbation. Its really hard for me to pick up jokes and trolls vs serious questions sometimes