If Trump's wall doesn't get built, it's because a part of it ended up in this thread. Anyway, here's my 2 cents: While Forge is guaranteed to become more powerful, especially as technology advances, whether it gets "better" or not is a matter of perspective, and it'll depend on several things. With an increase in Forge's utility comes more sophisticated tools and complex commands, and that naturally equates to longer development time. Maps in dev kits take months to create, and it's important to acknowledge that this will turn away many previous or potential adopters. Part of the appeal of Forge I imagine is that you could create a playable level on a short time table. However, because it is now possible to make something high poly, the gap in the design presentation has increased, and it'll only continue. Thus, the onus is on the community to respond to that in a positive way. Instead however, we are seeing a negative response to this. I don't think any blame needs to be placed because there are many elements that correlate in this shift of perspective. I'll give some examples: Halo 5 plays different. Most people would agree that the game is skewed towards larger player counts; however, some would say that the game plays better at smaller player counts, and is therefore only worth building for smaller player counts. This disagreement in the way the game ought to be played leads to a division in the way maps ought to be designed, which stymies collaboration. Forge still has performance limitations. Maps that can get away with the most ambitious designs and visuals tend to err on the smaller side, and that has led to a bias towards smaller maps. Activity and interest in the game and community has diminished, therefore it is more difficult to test different kinds of maps. All of these things have led to notion that there is only one way to play and Forge Halo 5. Despite the fact that I prefer playing 2v2 in this game and prefer designing more intimate maps, this is just as bad for Halo and the Forge community. Any time Halo decides to be "just one thing", it falls on its face. I agree that Halo has always sucked, or rather that it had long standing stupidity that was either never addressed, or done so in the wrong manner. But what Halo did well at one point was catering to every kind of player. There was something for everyone, whether they played cooperative content or competitive content - and whether they did so seriously or casually - and this was true all the way up to Reach. But Halo no longer does this. Halo 4 was a strictly casual game, and Halo 5 is engineered for "serious play" while ignoring every other element of the game. Despite the inclusion of social playlists and making all of the weapons easy to use, the game is arguably the least accessible that it has ever been. Of course, that extends into Forge. Again, due to the aforementioned reasons, Forge has simply shifted the location of its barrier for entry. The editor itself is no longer pointlessly cumbersome or childishly limited; its complexity has shifted from difficult controls to difficult completion. Sure you can get your ideas down faster and make more ambitious projects, but when it comes time to finish them, you have a whole suite of problems to deal with. With a game that is less accessible to play and a Forge that requires more time investment, the game has began to favor maps that are easier to "cram details into every corner" and don't require as much thought. 2v2 maps have less players and literally only one gametype to worry about, therefore they've become the "standard" within Forge because they don't require as much time investment. Again, the problem with this is that there is only one way to play 2v2 maps due to long standing problems with Halo's gameplay. Therefore, this trend has the potential to back the game into a corner that its content community could potentially get stuck in, thereby undermining the movement of Forge innovations to begin with. I don't think 343 needs to focus on "getting more people to Forge". Only a fraction of the Halo community is going to embrace level design, especially if the tools become more sophisticated and the average fidelity of a Forge map increases beyond the investment of a casual Forger. What 343 should do instead is focus on designing a game that works competitively and casually, prioritizing game modes that win early adopters and keep them around longer. They also need to do a better job in showcasing the custom content community, nd of course, the game needs to be better optimized to run on current technology. All of those things will facilitate a healthier population, which will lead to a more invested community and a more diverse Forge library. In the mean time, the community ought to embrace alternative designs and experimental ideas and continue to foster inclusive growth and progress. Otherwise, none of it is going to matter if there is nobody left to make use of it.
I need for you to stop acting like you know me. You and I are not friends. You do not speak for me. If you knew me, you would understand that I was not trying to make a remark about the quality of anything. "Cheap" is not an insult to an Executive Producer who is trying to cut down on unnecessary costs on a major movie project. Especially back when the popularity of the franchise was still unprecedented. Furthermore, I was referring specifically to the Hobbit holes in the background of the Shire. The were cheap set pieces, as in they were just for decoration. You couldn't really open the door and go inside. The Hobbit holes that Guillermo Del Toro designed are permanent structures. Other than the fact that they are scaled for full size humans, they are just like real Hobbit holes. They have windows and bedrooms and working fireplaces and everything. We're talking about like seven Hobbit holes here, and most of them aren't even in the final movie. You only see like a couple of them in a scene where Bilbo is running through the Shire. But they look real on the outside, because they are real on the inside. You completely missed the point of what I was trying to say. I'm not talking about quality, I'm talking about influences and process.
I know you weren't serious. And I don't care if you get offended. If you don't have something serious to contribute to the conversation, I'd rather you just keep quiet.
You and some of your friends seem to be the only one's that don't. It seems like all you want to do is start another non-sequitur challenge. Do you have anything to contribute to the conversation that doesn't involve making fun of Alex? Anything? Or is your only purpose here to derail the thread and stop any discussion concerning the future of Forge? Just asking.
OK. so I was thinking since MS has some kind of augmented reality glasses they want to market, and they already have Kinect, does anyone else think those peripheral devices might enhance our ability to Forge?
Yes, but its not worth the cost to develop it. I'd rather see 343's budget spent on delivering us more in game content because I'm very content forging without the proverbial 3D glasses. The Minecraft Hololense demonstration was just to help market the hardware in an interesting / creative way. The funds to create that demo did not come out of the Minecraft game development budget, it came from Hololense marketing team to help showcase practical use cases for the hardware.
Well, I don't think 343 has any responsibility to develop those peripherals. That doesn't stop them from optimizing Forge so that you can use them if you ever get a chance to get them at a reasonable price. Truth is it's going to happen one way or another and MS will either lead or try to catch up. If MS chooses to lead I can't think of anything better to roll it out with than Forge. Since this thread is about the future, let's imagine MS takes the plunge and when Halo 6 Forge or whatever they call Forge when Halo 6 releases is marketed as "Hololense (or whatever it's called) Compatible." Wouldn't that be a more intuitive way to Forge?
I don't think its safe to say building levels in 3D will be more intuitive. It may seem like its easier to visualize at first but what if your map is completely built with interior space that can't be viewed from the outside? Building a level in 3D view requires a map to be predominantly open, which can be creatively limiting. For 3D building to function properly, there would need to be a feature to snap back into player mode so you can view the interior spaces. Thankfully, the hololense operates as both augmented and standard virtual reality so its possible to do this. Honestly, I would love to experiment with something like this one day, I just hope it doesn't come out of 343's budget
I agree both that it would be nice to at least try and 343 shouldn't have to pay for it. Another thing I brought up way back on Bungie.net was zero gravity maps. Back then the main pushback I got was "who ever heard of fighting in zero gravity?" The other main argument was "it can't be done." Well, aside from the fact Halo is a sci-fi game, I did read in one of the books that all UNSC Marines are trained in zero-G combat so it's a "thing" in Halo, and today it's certainly possible sooo..... And space battles like we had with Reach.
We can already forge in zero gravity...just set your objects to fixed / phased and they will appear as if they're floating in space!
Well, I was actually referring to being able to have a game where there is no gravity. I know you can have floating objects but there's always gravity for the player. You can turn it down but not off. At least, that hasn't been possible with previous game engines. Perhaps we'll see some zero-G fighting in Halo 6 and then we'll have it in Forge. Perhaps.
just get Halo 6 for PC (hopefully a reality) and use higher framerate, better VR stuff And then yes, it will be an amazing thing to forge in what feels like a real 3D space. Heck, forge has already taken level design into 3D as you work. Most games and most dev kits don't really put you immediately IN the space, but rather, require you to imagine what it will look like later. I don't care if people like H5 or not. Forging is fun because it is a creative "game" that lets you experiment with what you can build. I also happen to think H5 is a lot of fun, but that may be because I've only been playing it for a few months on Forge for PC
Project Scorpio I would love to see them add a zero gravity canvas in Halo 6. Or, since they already have gravity volumes, maybe they could add anti-gravity volumes. The gravity volumes add gravity to the players and objects in the volume. It would be nice if they made anti-gravity volumes to remove gravity. And speaking of gravity volumes, I wish they could be placed on normal physics. You could do that at first, back when they first added the gravity volumes, but the problem was they would fall through the bottom of the map. One way to solve that problem would be to bring back the classic gravity volumes from Halo 4. They had an icon in the center of the bottom plane that looked like a respawn point with arrows floating above it. That could be a solid point for the gravity volumes so they don't fall through the floor.
I would say it's a console since Microsoft is calling it a console. It is a glorified version of the XBONE... 4k is overrated... I wish people would focus on higher framerates. Once people realize the amazing difference (even if they previuosly believed there was no difference) it is hard to go back. That is the chief reason I will never purchase another console. So, the future for Halo and forge for me is either on the PC or nowhere...
Or trait zones from halo 4. I was disappointed to see they got rid of them, and that traits for players can only be changed using the mini-game type.
Yeah I miss the old trait zones. But I still like having gravity volumes because trait zones only affect players. Gravity volumes affect other stuff like vehicles and grenades.
I keep being dumb-founded that there is no "undo" feature (just 1 level) in Forge... that's pretty major. The only alternative is to replace something you deleted (which hopefully doesn't have scripts attached) or save so often that you c can always exit w/o saving and then re-load. Pretty basic feature of almost any application made, which has always been missing from forge
I don’t find it that surprising that Forge doesn't have an undo feature. Sure it would be nice, but I don’t really miss it myself. Forge in Halo 5 has a quick save feature already, and you can always save your scripts with prefabs. Forge is not just some game editor application that uses the Halo engine. Forge is much more sophisticated than people give it credit for. It's part of the game, which means the game is running at the same time you're editing. As far as the Xbox is concerned, Forge is just another game mode for Halo, no different from slayer or CTF. Undo features usually work by keeping a recent saved copy of the file at hand. But Halo just doesn't work like that. Even in campaign, you can't just save whenever you want, you have to use checkpoints. And the checkpoint just takes a snapshot of the game, which includes the player. So I bet the reason we don't have an undo feature is because the system that Halo uses for saving games isn't designed for it.