@MultiLockOn What I mean by unintuitive is that moving around Oblivion involves clambering or jumping (the bridge in Chapel, the high chapel lightrifle, the rocks by the other lightrifle, traveling between the sides using the bridge - which I built based on what Xandrith had there, based on the narrow rocks that used to be there). From one perspective, you can say this restrictive pathing forces people to use the teleporters as opposed to flying across the map in a typical Halo 5 fashion, and I would agree that this is a good theory. In practice however I haven't felt that the map allows the player to move and shoot simultaneously because most of the paths discourage that. In the context of Halo 5, I just never felt like the map belongs in this game because the movement and gunplay is simply not good. I mean, you built the map after the Doom Beta, which had double jump. Virtually none of this would be an issue with better movement and gun mechanics. I feel like we need to remember how awful Halo 5 is and I don't think it's a cop out to bring it up. This game literally stifles level design. --- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2017 --- That's fine, I'd consider that playing defensively and I don't find any fault with it. I do it all the time while playing Destiny and I think it's fine for players to prefer slower, methodically paced maps. A game's map pool needs to be diverse and promote different styles of playing. I only have a problem when a map revolves entirely around executing one strategy a specific way, especially if that strategy involves pushing players out of a camp spot. Within the context of Halo and Destiny, I consider camping to be undesirable in any scenario. I don't know how other shooter fanbases consider camping for CoD, Battlefield or whatever, but Halo and Destiny are very similar in terms of their pacing. And of course, this is still a discussion about Slayer.
That just proves that it is built for Halo 5 if anything. The game is built around not being able to move and shoot at the same time, it's no different on my map. I understand as people with better understanding of game design we generally do our best to avoid clamber jumps and extraneous movement needed for the map which is why it's probably confusing. The clamber into the top labyrinth is intentional on both sides. If you're taking on top of the central pillars it just makes it that much more diffcult to escape by jumping into the top labyrinth. If you've ever wondered why I didn't just scoot the entrance to the top just a few inches closer that's why, it just punishes anyone who tries to use the top path as an escape route. You can't even build up a sprint to get up there while you're being shot. Same goes for chapel side. You either hop your way up on top of the Crypt or on top of the back floating elbow in the chapel (both of which require two jumps alone) and then clamber to the top. Again, if you have the forward thinking to get up there ahead of time then good for you. You're rewarded. If you're going to try and escape to the top in the middle of the fight it's going to be a bit harder and you're punished for it. Same goes for the chapel lightifle. It was a continuous staircase that wrapped around to the top at first. But imagine how easy it would be to hop in and out behind the curve as you peaked shots. You either commit and drop or shoot from the top. If you're caught you get punished and can back into the hole and either port right on top of the people shooting you or drop and thrust to catch the OS ledge and then you're on the bottom. It's all for rewarding forward thinking. I'm surprised you didn't mention the z-ramp to hydra but it's the same thing. If they catch you off guard at the bottom it's not a matter of just running up to the top, the z ramp convolutes the path and controls the pacing. Dropping into the teleporters takes extra time and controls the pacing. The bottom central labyrinth winds and turns to convolute the path and control the pacing. Everything is built to keep a continuous pace around the map. Literally down to the height of the teleporters (which is why the one that goes into the chapel is a shorter drop than the one to hydra). The slopes that press against every single rock on the map face you towards the center so you can't hide. There's no way to escape battle. So again, if you have the progressive thinking to position yourself in the right spot for every encounter, people aren't going to have an easy time running from you.
@MultiLockOn The Z-ramp is intuitive in my opinion and I don't find any problem with it in Halo 5. Everything else you've explained has made sense to me since the first time you told me about it; It is very punishing and I believe you accomplished what you set out to do with it. But I've run around the map with different base traits and I just enjoy it that way more than default Halo 5. I have no opinion about the other comments that have been made about the flow or gameplay on the map, and I've called it the best map in the game before, so I'm not suddenly hating on it. I can't find any fault with the map that isn't inherent to Forge other than calling it objectively the best map in Halo 5. That would insinuate that your philosophy for its design is better than other philosophies and I disagree with @Given To Fly's comment for that reason.
Actually I lied. **** that tiny corner near the altar in the chapel. When you told me you'd have it crumbling if it was a dev map, I was like "lolForge" You better remake the map in Radiant.
Did you look at Oblivion Prime in my files? I removed all the power weapons (meaning Incin Binary Hydra and OS, I left DB Light Rifles and PR), I added gay bars in front of the faux hallway, and I deleted the base of the chapel pillars to make them thinner. @AceOfSpades I tried it just for you http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/MultiLockOn/screenshot/6130543 Looked ****ing hideous
I looked at it yea, didn't notice the pillars though. lol at the sand. The terrain isn't the problem with the orientation. The map's contrast is just overblown because the lighting on parallax is garbage.
@MultiLockOn "You're confusing terminology here which is understandable because level designers don't actually have a book or anything. When I say every map should reward aggressive playstyle, I mean it should reward whichever team is actively doing something and making decisions. Yes, chess and good and bad aggressive moves. The point is that they're making the move quickly is what makes it admirable, especially if it were the right move. Because doing anything is easy when it's slow. Doing anything is hard when it's fast and that's all it comes down to." Confusing the terminology? I think not. There is a book, it's called a dictionary. No dictionary defines the word "aggressive" as you've defined it. @a Chunk used the word "aggressive" in the same context as I did. In the way it's intended to be used. You said to a Chunk "When I say aggressive I just mean forcing the players to make decisions quickly" That's YOUR definition of the word. But not the actual definition. I'm using it the way it's defined in a dictionary and understood by your average joe. "So when I say aggressive play, I mean forcing players to make decisions as quick as you possibly can. That's aggressive, which I admit isn't the best word choice." Even here, you admit its not the best word choice, this is because it's not the correct word to describe what you mean.
Bodey, my man. You're agreeing with me, chill out. I'm saying I understand that ME using the word aggressive it's not the common usage. I just say "aggressive play" in place of "fast decision making". Chill dude
Ok, I read your first sentence with a more demeaning tone than was probably intended. I guess you could say that's why i got aggressive in my reply. pun intended
Is that Barrens sand? I like the color of the Depths sand better, but I agree that does look pretty awful so I doubt the Depths sand would be any better.