So I have been a part of forgehub under a year, but I can't help the addiction, I love coming here. This is a fun community, mostly helpful, the elitists are few, the forgers are many. Before I get into the topic, I will own up and say that I have likely done this to an extent and this thread is not to point fingers, but to educate in hopes of helping with the map filtering. Frequently updating maps with small updates is not a crime, it is not bad, or anything of the like. It is great to inform people following you and/or your content of changes made, areas reworked, things tweaked, etc. I personally love it. However, despite the backlash I am prepared to get if people do not feel the same, I do want to bring some attention to this small issue with it. If you are going to make an update to your map, make an update. There are even maps and people I like to follow who do not really do this. The example being this: Example "Post Map Update" gone wrong Fixed a small z-fight in the flooring by the door. Moved Red team grenades a few inches to make them look cleaner. If that is your update, that brings your map front and center, you are hurting other creators. When someone posts a map, they likely check to see how it is received and if there was any feedback, be it negative or positive in order to promote their map. When you update your map and throw it on the front page a lot with little reason, you are pushing others down below you that should be allowed some time to have a little exposure. If your zfighting got fixed, or you moved some grenades and it is something that someone will not realize in the history of ever, then consider it a silent hotfix. Devs do this all the time. When you have a real update prepared, ask yourself a few things like, "Does this affect the game play?" "Is this area actually different?" "Should I save this for after some testing?" I understand we are and aren't devs, but we are authors, we are creators, we are a lot of things as forgers. I encourage everyone to care about what they are doing with their map, care about your post just as much as you care about your map! If you post one picture and have a one word sentence about your map, that might be good enough for you and you might really care about your map. However, getting others interested in your map requires a little more thought. I personally have a hard time wanting to click that download button and go check out your creation if you didn't have the 5 mins to describe your map a bit. What did you like about it personally? What areas are interesting? What kind of game type would be fun on your map? It is easy to just move on to the next post if I have difficulty understanding what you have created and shared for the enjoyment of myself and others. Back to the main topic though, when you post an update, make sure it is really worth it, that it is more than just a way to front page your work again. This is a great place with mostly a great system, don't abuse it. If you only added cams and 2 more spawn points, I really don't need to know that. A better example would be something like: Name: (Symmetrical Map) Update Summary: Minor map redesign, weapon changes, etc. *Reworked inner middle hallway by shortening the hallway and added windows for players to get out of so they aren't trapped and have a more interesting option. *After some feedback, I found that there were too many weapons on the map, 2 of the 4 Storm Rifles have been removed, the two removed were near the fountain on each respective side. *The respawns by the team bases have been moved more away from the initial spawns because of a sight line that allowed for spawn killing. That of course is just an example, maybe too much, maybe to little. It is still up to you to decide, but be courteous of others. When you make an update, make it something that is worth reading and actually changed something players were either complaining about and/or affected the way the map looked or played. When you make an update with the said bad example, you took away some of the exposure that another forger was hoping for. No one likes it when it happens to them, please don't be that person. This is a fun community and people enjoy a lot of different aspects about it, but one thing people clearly care about in a major way with good reason, is their hard work, lets respect that. If you feel the need to "Front Page" your map because you can't find people to play on your map, or test your map, the site provides some options as do some of the other sites. Take advantage of the different testing lobbies provided in this link: http://www.forgehub.com/threads/testing-lobbies-forge-guides-other-resources.148358/ Sure, maybe with the increase of the forge community that Halo 5 brought, maybe ForgeHub could use a few new tweaks. However, the system in place is still pretty good, lets respect what was built. If you read all of this, thanks for your time, I hope this topic was educational and/or helped in some way.
How do you feel about people re-releasing maps? Like a 2.0? I always try to keep the same file once submitted.
I'm for that, I'm truly in support of updates and redesigns. This was meant entirely for updates that hold no real meaning.
I've retired from being a like ***** by posting updates in the waywo. I'll be using dedicated threads for maps from now on.
Very well stated. I think it's been said publicly before, but the topic of how to handle updates was discussed when I was on the staff. While no changes have been made, I wouldn't take that to mean that changes can't be made. It seems only right that if someone makes a significant update to their map, that people would be aware of it, and that's why the system is setup as it is. However, if the system gets abused, it's possible that it could change. Don't be one of the people responsible for everyone losing the opportunity to showcase legitimate improvements to their map. Generally, if I see a map post that has no effort put into it, OR if I see that someone is constantly updating their map with something similar to what you've described, I simply stop paying attention to that persons content. I stop clicking on their threads. I scroll past their posts in other threads. In essence, they no longer exist to me. I would never suggest that anyone else take that approach. I just personally can't justify giving any time or attention to the people that do that.
An extra button right next to "NEWEST" at the top saying "UPDATED" would help a lot, I guess. The "NEWEST" section would only show the newest maps neglecting updates, this would be the primary page. If you then click on "UPDATED" you would get to the section, which considers updates - which basically is the "NEWEST" section now. ^^
Couldn't agree more. I hate it when people make pointless updates just to get their map back to the frontpage. I think it's also good if people added images in their updates to show the changes and whatnot. An example of a map post that does this very well is Freakshow. I actually enjoy reading its updates because of the detail and effort put into them. And then we get **** like this and this. 14 updates and counting.
A very good point, and something that I (and hopefully others) will try to be mindful of moving forward. As someone who's just jumped on to Forgehub with Halo 5, I've made a fair share of dumb / useless posts from time to time. For instance, I've uploaded a few maps that I was excited about at the time but looking back on them...eh. I probably should have held off and tested them a lot more before sending them out to the world. Or I've created and updated WIP threads that no one except me pays attention to... Long story short, I've been going through my old files recently in an effort to improve some of those old designs I'm embarrassed of and get my portfolio more consistent. I have some maps I'm proud of and some real stinkers in there as well. So I just posted a few map updates before reading this thread. All of them feature important changes...but still...Hopefully I'm not part of the problem. If I am, I will keep this in mind.
Hey guys, I moved an invisible blocker sticking out of the wall on Cesspool. Also rotated an intro cam by 3 degrees.
I definitely think that map updates being separate from "new" would be a fantastic idea. Some people like to follow specific maps/peoples' maps, and some people always want to look at the new content. I mean if we're following a map we already get updates when they do. Could be cool to like have a system that bumps a map more if it's updated less often under the presumption that the longer time between updates, the bigger the update must be. So instead of going to the top of updated maps, it goes up by a proportional amount. Or you could have sorts, so like "updated most often, shortest time between updates, sort by size of update text" or updates could have a separate rating system, so people/maps whose updates get downvoted a lot would be "bad updaters". Which there could also be a sort for, "sort by update rating: map" and "sort by update rating: forger", the forger's rating is the comprehensive average rating of all his/her map ratings. And the updates being separate from the new maps.
All my maps have been buried within a day because of that, Now the only way to counter it IS to bump it Seriously just remove bumps completely, hardly anybody will check updates, nobody cares.
I've always thought the same. Hotfixes shouldn't need a bump back up front. I had an invisible barrier that got moved in one of my maps, but that was literally it. I didn't post a map update over it. Some people do like you said and "added one extra spawn point" and then post. I've never understood that. My updates are usually when some large changes are made or something major was broken in the map and it got fixed. Hotfixes either get saved for a large update post or go unsaid. And as far as "no one playing the map", you're right. Get it tested. Or start a custom lobby of your own and play the map.
One thing I find just as annoying is the forgers that post updates for 5 of their maps at the same time.
Haha, I do that sometimes! I update my Jurassic Park stuff together, but it is typically because we got something that changed both maps, like the Tidal trees.