Gametype Feature: Old School Settings

Discussion in 'Features' started by AlexVan123, Jul 26, 2016.

By AlexVan123 on Jul 26, 2016 at 7:33 PM
  1. AlexVan123

    AlexVan123 Halo Customs

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    old_school_header.jpg
    The Old School Settings series of gametypes includes one of the best ways to relive the memories of past Halo games in Halo 5, but better, thanks to 60 fps, fine-tuned settings, and some extremely hard work put in by Kell of Scots and Sgt x Slaphead.

    Old School Settings are a brilliant way to get nostalgic about the games of the past extremely quick. It packs a huge amount of fine-tuning and specified settings, some of which I’ll mention later, to really hit that feeling of games like Halo 2 & Halo 3. A lot of love went into this project, and it really shows! Surprisingly, due to some changes with the movement speed, this gametype properly works on maps scaled to Halo 5’s movement speed and mechanics.

    Some notable changes include the lack of all Spartan abilities and radar, which are obvious when you first play the gametypes, however lots of other fine-tuning has occurred. In terms of movement, players move at 120 speed, close to the speed of sprint, as default. Players also get a movement acceleration of 130 on both axis, meaning that players strafe faster than normal, adding to the fast pace. Additionally, the jump height has been changed to 110 percent, reason being that the jump height in Halo 5 is actually lower than that of classic games.

    In terms of weapon and health changes, players start with the default 2 frag grenades, however they can pick up 4 of each grenade type. Players also start play with a H5 BR and pistol, as opposed to the H2 BR. This change was made because it was found that the H2 BR has too much aim assist to be fair in this mode. Also, the pistol has a faster kill time than before and can be used to finish off kills or as a primary weapon, for more skilled players. Health and shield settings have changed too in order to balance automatic rifles to be more fair.

    I had the lucky opportunity to sit down with the creators of this awesome mode, Kell Of Scots and Sgt x Slaphead, to ask them a few questions.


    Alex:
    What is Old School?

    Slap:
    I love good ol' Halo and I suppose the idea to create Old School settings was born from all that Spartan Charge raging. We didn't simply want to recreate a single Halo from 1-3 but rather take the elements we enjoyed and tweak them into a new game type. I am not opposed to the enhanced mobility that is being pushed these days but we wanted to execute it with the fluidity and refinement of a classic Halo.

    Kell:
    Bungie established what they called the golden triangle of guns, grenades and melee. In Halo 5 standard settings you are encouraged to make use of the new movement mechanics however they prevent you from using these forms of attack at all times. Sprinting lowers your weapon for example. The more refined approach to sprint is to simply increase base movement speed. This allows players to move faster while not disrupting the ability to shoot.

    Slap:
    To me, movement and offensive play is what makes a shooter exciting. Nobody likes campers but what I do like is seeing campers get naded out of their dirty hideouts, I enjoy getting into intense strafing battles and I love as a map designer being able to design around a consistent movement that doesn't present scaling issues and have me worry about people performing jumps that break my intended flow. Kell and myself wanted to push the pace of Halo a little further than it has been before while respecting the simplicity of the mechanics which made the early Halos so successful.


    Alex:
    What were your goals with Old School?

    Slap:
    To remind ourselves what it means to break a game down it's core elements. What we mean by this is that the spartan abilities are illusive. Despite their apparent speeding up of gameplay on paper, they have the reverse effect. We feel that the fluidity of the game has been hurt by the separation of movement and the ability to attack.

    Kell:
    We wanted old school settings to offer the pace and mobility of Halo 5's movement, while never limiting your option to attack.

    Our goal was not initially to make the most competitive mode possible but an accessible gametype that gets to the core of what we think makes an arena FPS awesome while a maintaining a skill gap.


    Alex:
    Why did you settle on the Halo 5 BR?

    Slap:
    We wanted to use the Halo 2 Battle Rifle for the nostalgia and the simple fact that we enjoy using it but unfortunately its aim assist and bullet magnetism along with its spread gives it a lower skill gap than we would like. The Halo 5 BRs tighter spread makes for a more consistent and skill based weapon. It's increased aim assist works well with the faster strafe speed to make aiming not too frustrating while placing emphasis on skillful strafing to win duels. The magnum works well as a side arm for finishing kills over reloading the BR while having a slightly faster kill time than the BR as a trade-off for its difficulty of aiming.

    Kell:
    Another reason for using the H5 BR is it offers more power to the player respawning vs players with power weapons. In Halo CE power weapons are powerful (hence the name) but so was the starting weapon. Something me and Kell of Scots enjoy in weapon sandbox design is the idea that pickups will give you a deserved advantage in specific situations however the difference between the power of these pickups compared to the power of the starting weapon will never be so great that power weapons necessarily guarantee kills. We think that while power weapons should be important, the underdog with only the starting weapon to defend themselves should have some chance of winning duels against the player using pickups. In our settings we initially used increased health to balance automatics as we consider them too powerful despite their ease of use compared to precision weapons. This increased health also makes shotguns and rocket launchers slightly weaker for example. Combine that with the significantly increased speed and strafing capabilities of players and suddenly a Rocket Launcher vs a BR is no longer giving the expected result every time where previous Halos would.

    Slap:
    We have heavily tested using the Halo 5 Magnum, Halo 2 BR and Halo 5 BR as primary starting weapons. For the most competitive settings possible on great connection the Halo 5 Magnum is a great choice. We found the H2 BR with a slight decrease to the movement speeds we have set will offer a mode that feels closer to H2/H3 and is fun for the nostalgia factor. Overall the Halo 5 BR hits a sweet spot for us that balances the competitive, casual and nostalgic gameplay we want to achieve.


    Alex:
    So why did you make the Old School movement the way you did?

    Kell:
    So the changes to movement accomplish three things:

    They up the base movement speed to be on par with sprinting in Halo 5, allowing the gametype to maintain the speed sprint gives, but much more consistently and not separating moving at that speed from your ability to attack. This not only works maintain the perceived faster pace of Halo 5, but actually makes it play even faster as you never have any down time on moving as fast as possible.

    Slap:
    The overhaul to the strafing to allow for consistent, readily available dodging mechanic that is found inherently in a good strafe, and once again, it doesn't separate the dodge from your ability to attack. The increased move speed along strafe overhaul removes those situations found in halo 5 where you die because you didn't have a thrust, which many weapons and the grenades have been balanced around. In order to dodge that weapon, you need thrust. Don't have a thrust? Well you die. We wanted to get rid of that.

    Kell:
    The jump height change has a simple explanation. The base jump height has been reduced in Halo 5 to accommodate for clamber, so when we removed clamber, it needed to be increased.

    Slap:
    But what these changes succeed in achieving together is making for a more consistent move speed that you can truly get used to. With all the different movement speeds in Halo 5, many people find that there is no real sensitivity that allows you always ready be each engagement, and so you never really get used to Halo 5 aiming. These settings having such a consistent movement just brings more predictably to the game, and with it, providing a more competitive experience.

    Kell:
    We did however experiment with keeping ground pound and stabilise, as we don't feel this abilities are inherently broken. If Ground Pound had a smaller cone from where you could aim to land, we might have kept it. But as it is, you can use it to travel distances that, for map flow, we felt were detrimental. As for stabilise, it was just an inconsistency. When you see a player drop, you expect them to land at a certain time, you know It's predictable. We felt stabilise hurt that. It also hands more power over to the map creators, as it can open up some unintended sightlines. In the end we decided that, in their current form, Ground Pound and Stabilise hurt flow enough to be left out of the settings. We kind of see ground pound as the vertical assassination, and we would be open to it in a more classic Halo experience if it didn't affect your melee in mid air, delaying it like it seems to do in base Halo 5, and your cone in which to aim ground pound was reduced.


    Alex:
    What's up with 4 grenades?

    Kell:
    In Old School settings you will start with 2 Frag Grenades but you may hold up to 4 of each grenade type. We enjoy how Halo CE makes use of grenades to punish camping and reward offensive play. For this reason we wanted grenades to promote movement in two ways. Firstly, through empowering attackers with an effective way of flushing enemy players out of power positions and secondly, by encouraging players to collect grenades that can be placed more frequently around the map. In general, more pickups means more movement however because matchmaking standard grenades can be incredibly deadly in Arena, they tend to be placed more sparingly. We wanted to use grenades as a light pickup that keeps players moving and be able to place more on the map. This is akin to how health pickups are used in traditional arena shooters to assist map flow.

    Slap:
    Grenades in Halo 5 show up hit markers to the player therefore we felt they became more powerful in assisting players zone in on campers. Because they offer more information to the player through hit markers we decided to weaken grenades for balancing purposes. Grenades in Old School settings have 110% damage (which is still slightly weaker than standard Halo 5 due to increased health) and 90% blast radius since we considered 100% blast radius to be more optimized for the thruster pack. This also means a single grenade requires a little more accuracy than usual to do serious damage.


    Alex:
    What can we expect from you in the future?

    Kell:
    You can expect us to continue to give fiery responses to those who say the that Halo needs to evolve, as that argument has a weaker foundation than a shed built on an erupting volcano.

    No one tired got tired of classic Halo, it was taken away from the community, we would like to give it back. Enjoy it!

    Slap:
    You can expect us be hosting old school lobbies, compiling a list of maps on our bookmarks that suit the settings including remakes and but we are more excited about original designs that built around the settings, or support them already.


    You can download these gametypes and try them out yourself here.
     
    #1 AlexVan123, Jul 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2016
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Comments

Discussion in 'Features' started by AlexVan123, Jul 26, 2016.

    1. Kell Of Scots
      Kell Of Scots
      Which of course means that 343 lied about the move boost of sprint
    2. SecretSchnitzel
      SecretSchnitzel
      That's weird, because I tested it earlier in this game's history, and it was definitely what I said. Strange.
    3. NiZiGhTMaRe
      NiZiGhTMaRe
      While better settings have been desperately needed in this game for a long time, I'd like to see a mesh between some of the H5 settings with a more classic approach(Namely, MLG settings as seen in H3 and H:R).

      Something with H5 BR/LR and Magnum start, no radar, GP/Sprint/Clamber only, and using weapons like the Storm Rifle and SMG as Tier 2 power weapons. Along with something like 110% Jump Height, combined with 110% Movement, 90% Sprint Speed, 110% Strafe Acc. and such things; which I have been tinkering with for some time now, and haven't tested out. As well as taking out Stopping power, tinkering with Shield Recharge rate and the whole recharging shields when going into Sprint.

      If the Recon DMR ever makes it into the Loadout area, just running a solo starting Recon DMR wouldn't be bad, and I hated DMRs for the longest time.
      Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
    4. Sn1p3r C
      Sn1p3r C
      It's refreshing to see features like this. Maps aren't the only things that can be tweaked.
    5. HeX Reapers
      HeX Reapers
      If REQ variants were available as starting weapons, would the Classic-Scoped H5 BR be in consideration? The zoom in on both weapons is 2x regardless.
    6. SeaVomit
      SeaVomit
      You call these old school settings yet you decreased nade splash and increased strafe. sounds more like you just took away what made the old school games skillful. Halo 2 was the "easiest" 4shot making it the fastest of all the BR's, therefore if you made a wrong play you where punished for it, and decreased nade splash is just dumbing down movement around nades, AS WELL as increasing strafe LOL what's the point of nades at all when you do that. The people that made this obviously don't understand "old school" shooters.

      Old school shooters where built around simple weapon play and movement making the movement itself actually skillful. all you did was do what 343 has been doing for years by making more get away time for bad plays. increased movement for no sprint so it's theoretically the same, and decreased nade splash for the people who are not good enough to anticipate dodging nades. This is an insult to "old school" shooters. This should be taken down and made by people who actually understand old school shooters.

      Who ever made this sounds like they hate getting 4 shotted and is really bad at dodging nades, what do you want, full clip BR battles? LOL in halo 2 you could kill 3 people with one clip easily (or even more with bxr's). same goes for Halo CE.

      Sure you can call this what ever you want but it's "old school settings for noobs"
      Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
      fame28 likes this.
    7. NiZiGhTMaRe
      NiZiGhTMaRe

      You do know that the AoE of H5 Grenades were buffed to counter Thrust, right? So you would have to dub down the AoE a little bit to compensate for the lack of thrust in these types of settings. And strafing has nothing to do with dodging grenades. Strafing deals with dodging bullets, bruh. Then again, I haven't see what these settings are to know how much the splash was nerfed.
    8. Kell Of Scots
      Kell Of Scots
      What did I just read?

      The movement is not seperated from attacking, so A player can push a player the top speed while being able to shoot.

      The movement in these settings is getting closer to those older Arena Shooters, where the skill gap is your strafe as much as your aim.

      And we love that. The fact your strafe is powerful, the ability have a true 1v1 battle that is tense and about moving and shooting, it makes them more dynamic and intresting.

      In the politest way possible, you are talking nonsense
      MartianMallCop likes this.
    9. Doju
      Doju
      Just ignore the aggressive posts, no need to respond to that.

      What I still dont agree with is the constant reference to old arena shooters. Those arena shootings had hyper fast movement, strafing etc, but also had lots of items around the map on quicker timers, and no regenerating health, so every encounter mattered, and those encounters occurred frequently. With regenerating health, long, Halo 3 esque kill times, and 3 minute timers, you've added one aspect of arena shooters, but into the slower paced natured of Halo 3. The arena shooters were also played on PC's, with the more precise keyboard/mouse.

      With all this in place, the "true" 1 v 1 battle wont happen with long kill times, 4 v 4, and slow weapon timers which promote less map movement.

      And if theres this focus on old school arena shooters, skilled battles etc, then there is no reason for the BR to be used over the pistol, especially a 4sk pistol.

      Basically, this gametype becomes instantly better with

      -4sk pistol (only weapon broken is the BR which becomes 3sk, ditch it). Have the AR secondary for the Old School gimmick. 1.01 kill time with super fast strafe is perfect.
      -110 acceleration, maybe 120 at a push
      -Your custom maps have power items no longer than 120s
      Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
      HeX Reapers likes this.
    10. Kell Of Scots
      Kell Of Scots
      Better to what you are perhaps looking for, but not for what we wished to create.

      We did mention in the interview for true competitive settings, you may want to switch to a pistol or edit the settings (As Halo often has done from the default settings). These settings are not supposed to be the most competitive settings possible.

      We like the Pace of BR, we feel it has a nicer pace in fights, And we like the longer fights that put an emphasis on moving about and shooting, and last a little longer, it's what we enjoy. All The little skirmishes 2 players can have throughout the matches. And we haven't experienced a loss in promoting map movement from these settings, so we experiance these all the time.

      And, in our experience, these kill times are fast enough for what we designed, and map movement is not discouraged.

      We enjoy the movespeed of these settings, and we find the pistol is finicky at these speeds, which coupled with Halo 5's aiming, its Laggy aim and hitboxes, it is not as enjoyable, much of the feedback we recieved with the pistol was that it felt like you were fighting the aim even more that you can experience in base Halo 5. and we wish to keep the movement as it is, it is possibly our favourite part. And so we feel it needs to have the BR over the pistol

      For more specifically competitive settings, you may want to switch to the pistol.

      But for what we designed, what we enjoy about Halo and Shooters we feel the BR and Movespeed are not a detriment to it and acheive what we wanted. We enjoy the faster movement as well as the longer 1v1 fights that are like an intimate skirmish amongst a larger battle.

      Infact, the comparison to Halo 3 is not unfair. I agree it shares elements with Halo 3, but that isn't inherently worse, it's just different from Halo 1 and 2.

      But as opposed to long optimum TTK and slow movement like in Halo 3, we have a faster TTK (compared to Halo 3) But with fast movement. A change to this style we enjoy

      And we don't see that as "Worse" than either Halo 1 or 2, just different from them. And we do enjoy that style of Halo, and appreciate it's merits while appreciating the merits of the others also
      Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
      MartianMallCop and HeX Reapers like this.
    11. SeaVomit
      SeaVomit
      LOL this new generation of halo players, you guys have become so accustomed to this new age 343 trash, all you guys want is full clip BR battles and less nade splash so you guys can make bad plays and still get away. come play halo 2 middy ffa's for 5 hours straight and get stepped on then tell me what you know about "old school".

      I don't care about the settings let alone this trash game, it's that you advertise this as "old school" giving us real old school players a bad rep implying this is what we want LOL this is an insult to old school. you've made the settings but taken away all the simplicity that in effect truly made those games skillfull. Longer kill times and overly messy 1v1 battles don't make games more skillfull, they cater to bad play making and just an over all messy game. You want aggressive 1v1 battles? then play with good people lol don't break the game cus ur not good enough.

      and don't get upset and say I'm talking nonsense. you advertised something as old school when I clearly don't agree with you and that's ok. but if your just gonna ignore someone that actually lives and sleeps halo 2 when you try to advertise your product as "old school" then you're in no position to be advertising this because I clearly don't believe you understand what makes "old school" halo.

      if you wanted to make something totally different such as quake or unreal tourney then make the primary weapon the scatter shot and increase the movement to super fast and name it something different LOL
      Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
      fame28 likes this.
    12. Box Knows
      Box Knows
      Ma boi jb neckzilla says u r trash and can't quad
      SeaVomit likes this.
    13. SeaVomit
      SeaVomit
      lol
      Last edited: Jul 28, 2016
      TheGodofForge likes this.
    14. TheGodofForge
      TheGodofForge
      u r trash and can't quad



      And ur midship jump isnt cool /s
      SeaVomit likes this.
    15. Doju
      Doju
      Refrain from full on insults please just because you disagree with the settings.

      And with all this talk of how incredibly skillful Halo 2 was

    16. Kell Of Scots
      Kell Of Scots
      Top Quality Banter

      And the COD Basher Halo Fans think Halo was always so L337 5K1LL5

      Slaphead and I agree Halo 1 was the most Knowledge Based, which isn't necessarily skill, skill comes from how you use that knowledge, so it's up to designers what knowledge you want the players to be able to know going into the game for the first time. But of course it's requirement to actually have Aim where you want to hit was something I sorely miss. High Aim Assist Low Magnetism (Ie Halo 1) is certainly better shooting mechanic model if you can guarantee good Internet and funtional aiming. And I do appreciate that.

      Sadly Halo 5 can be dubious in both manners, although better than we've had before for many people in regard to connection.
      Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2016
      MartianMallCop likes this.
    17. MrGreenWithAGun
      MrGreenWithAGun
      Ya it was taken from us.

      I like this effort. Will you be porting these when Forge 5 comes out on Windows.
    18. SgtSlaphead
      SgtSlaphead
      Sorry for the late reply. I have been pretty busy lately and with such a messy schedule I can't really promise any regular lobby dates that I could host. We are looking at who can host reliably and regularly so that we may post in the near future an old school lobby thread.
      HeX Reapers and Kell Of Scots like this.
    19. Preacher001
      Preacher001
      We all knew noone would be satisfied no matter what the settings were right?

      Carry on.
      MartianMallCop likes this.
    20. HeX Reapers
      HeX Reapers
      I'm decently satisfied. It's 10x better than stock.

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