Into the forge: 4v4 testing with Xdemption

Thanks a lot for testing Wet Dream!

I typically wouldn't even submit a map that's at this point in its development, but if I wait until I can playtest it myself it wouldn't even get an initial playtest for another month probably. Regarding the aesthetics, this is totally in the blockout stage. I didn't want to do much of anything with it aesthetically until I knew the map was sound structurally and wouldn't require any major changes. It seems that was a good decision, because it's obvious that I need to upscale it a bit. The big-ass room isn't quite big enough for my taste.
By the way, I totally planned to have more height variation in that room. I was probably going to have the stronghold be a hot-tub, or something like that. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

I think I'll need to ditch Slayer on this entirely. Not too surprised by that honestly, as it was 100% designed with strongholds in mind. On a serious note regarding the scaling, I'm at a bit of a loss for how to approach down-scaling it. The vertical distance between the levels determined the current scaling of each area. Down-scaling the map means shrinking it vertically, increasing the ramp angles significantly, or replacing ramps with clamber jumps in various places. I don't really like any of those options, as they drastically impact either the freedom of movement, or the lines of sight. I suppose I could copy the H2A blockout scaling, but then I'll have people doing sprint-thrust jumps, and clambering everywhere at will, which would dramatically impact the overall flow. I'll have to do some experimenting to see if a re-scale is even worth the effort.

Thanks again to @Demption and all the other testers for taking the time to run some games on all the maps.

 

1) Some areas were built with classic scaling in mind, and may seem too restrictive to some, but I personally find them feeling juuuuust right. It just seemed to me that since Reach, maps began getting wider and stretched out a little. Mainly forge maps, but the dev maps as well. Anyway I completely understand how certain areas would feel tight, but that caters to my play style. I did however open up green room leading into the main hall. It feels much better thanks to @Demption and @Debo37 for the suggestion.

2) I didn't get my hands on it too much during our tests. Initially, I wanted sniper in a more room based map since it is so strong in H5, but perhaps it is too weak on this map? I'd like to test it much more before switching up weapons though.

3) Yeah, I made most the map a universal color because I feel that it is tacky to have different colors for every room, but I did want a noticeable area callout in a few places like green room behind the main hall.
I prefer discovering callouts from structures rather than simple colors or tags on radar. Adds a layer of depth that should encourage you to play the map more and learn more about it.
I could add volumes if I had pieces but sadly, I'm about maxed out for budget, and do not really want to sacrifice aesthetics simply for name volumes. (Unless there is matchmaking consideration of course)

4) I could see a one-way functioning well, but wouldn't want to force it into the map just for the sake of inclusion though. I'll have to scope around the map and look for reasonable points of travel. I think the lift functions like a one-way spiritually, and I like that you can still interact with the player while they use it. I'm open to this idea, but not sure it's necessary.

5) Getting to OS is not supposed to be an easy pickup. It is only accessible through jumps to pipes. I think it really is more of a map knowledge thing. I designed it like that on purpose though keeping in mind the flow of the map. @MultiLockOn helped toy around with that idea, and the first draft was his idea, I merely made the path up there pipes to remove the possibility of camping. It is fully possible to sit around top lift, and try to hold it down for OS, but it will get you virtually nothing to stay up there the whole time. Sniper spans across map and has sightlines up into that top tower balcony. PC spawns at the very bottom of the map in front of the pit, and can be used as an amazing weapon to flood people out of that area.

The OS location acts as a transition area from either end. You can take it and boost across the the window leading into sniper as a flank with OS, or take it from the other way and flank into top lift or main hall from the pipes. There is even an explosive barrel on the platform between pipes and main hall for incoming players. If used correctly, can weaken or burn OS anyway.

I was very happy with how I was using OS, but not everyone was using it or seeing how to get up there, which is fine for now. I think it is more of just a map knowledge thing. It's the polar opposite of bottom camo on the rig. Once people learn how to use the area to their advantage, it will prove to be more accepted imo.

Anyway, GREAT lobby last night, all the maps played fantastic for at least one game type. Solid feedback from everyone I will/am taking into account!

 

FEEDBACK

Raven's Lair

+ Great objective play
+ Much better map theme aesthetically
- I prefer the first iteration of the map's scaling. With the new theme and old scaling, it would feel awesome. It feels much too pancaked and flattened out with how wide you made areas, but the doorways help with lines of sight.
+ Weapons feel pretty solid
- There was virtually zero calling out on this map, and I feel as though it is partly due to the theme. Distinct areas of the map should have a noticable difference to them while retaining the theme of the map. Completely easy fix.
- One side of the map has a railing that you can crawl up perfectly to get higher, but the opposite side leads you into a column and has a very sloppy transition to the top floor. simple fix.
- I have no idea where the teleports are, in fact I don't think they are necessary at all.
+ Middle rooms redesign feels leagues ahead of it's first draft. as well as side rooms.

Port 66

+ plays strongholds spectacularly. All locations are well balanced.
+ very easy to call out major positions / navigate throughout
- Weapons felt stale to me. Not game changing choices, and they should have more impact.
- Quite a bit of extra dance floor, but this could just be a personal problem for me since people think mine doesn't have quite enough dance floor. It isn't a breaking quality either, as I really enjoyed the pacing.
+ OS placement and location felt necessary for pushing into diner, it really ended the cross map standoff for whoever got it and pushed forward.
+ Fantastic flanking routes, initially I thought stairwell was too defendable but nearly always forgot about vents leading to it, and was successfully taken out.
+ Drunk grunt

Slushed

+ Very fun stronghold game, placements were great creating a rock paper scissors effect, that kept us cycling
- Even with constant cycling, it felt that courtyard was the main place to want to retain. Opening sight lines between drill and red would solve this.
+ Underwater element was very cool. It was fantastic for flanking around but if caught underneath you were going to loose the fight.
- Excessive amount of dance floor underwater. Narrowing the pathways to channels of water would improve the flow significantly.
+ Weapons worked pretty well, couldn't complain too much if at all.
- Aesthetically, Red base felt very simplistic and could use some touching up, but overall the map had a very cool theme. If I had the heart to start another project I would want something like this.

Wet Dream

+ Great setups for strongholds
- OVERSCALED
+ I enjoyed sniper, but found myself using it only where it spawns. Not sure if that is an issue or not though.
- readability was somewhat difficult for me, which is something I never complain about really. After 3 tests I wasn't sure if the map was symmetric or not. two bottom pools threw me off especially when they are so similar in appearance.

 

Nope, you're just retarded.

 

I has new map
GT: N3gat1veZer0
Map: Inclement
Link: http://www.forgehub.com/maps/inclement.2641/
Quick Rundown: Symmetrical, Snowy, Narrows-esque??
Gametypes: CTF, Slayer, Strongholds

 

I can't stop laughing ahahaha

 

Feedback:

Raven's Lair
+Interesting layout; the central atrium was perfectly balanced with the rest of the map. The incentive to take the fast route across mid for objectives was risky enough to make you think twice, and the outside route, despite being slower, was less risky.
+Just damn good objective gameplay. Flag/Bomb locations were in ideal spots - frantic plays up the back ramp in each base really added an interesting element.
-Bland color scheme; player orientation was a bit difficult on each side (subtle details like muck/trees were nice but not always adequate, especially if you found yourself in the side stairs or top areas).


Loading Zone
+Very vertical layout, quite distinct from the usual fare. The map felt very unique, which was great.
+Gorgeous aesthetics, I loved that you textured the floors with the grates - they look very cool and you nailed the industrial vibe.
+Really creative sightlines and major engagement spots; I loved the lift to the topmost railing which overlooked the loading platform and the cyclical countering that encouraged.
-Remove the unnecessary wall we discussed. There may be more walls you could remove, so take a critical eye to each of them.
-Re-work or broaden some paths to allow traversal that matches their sightlines; the one I felt was especially awkward was the path in the room where the plasma grenade tunnel looks toward the Sniper spawn. Engagements often happened from Sniper to the entry point of that path, but because the path was L shaped, players' motion along it was super predictable and easy to shut down, which prevented clockwise pushes toward the sniper. Since you have a predominantly clockwise flow going on, you probably want to make that "top" stronghold the counterposition for taking the "back" stronghold
+I loved the Overshield location, in spite of what others thought. My only suggestion would be to make the path up there more obvious, perhaps by connecting it directly with red pipes to one or two spots on the "normal" map. Being able to look up at the top and follow the pipes with one's eyes would really promote the use of that pathway by making it more visually intuitive.


Port 66
+Just goddamn. The visual vibe this map gives is fantastic; you nailed the use of textures and successfully created a look that was both futuristic and retro. First impression here was off the charts.
+Distinctive areas supremely assisted callouts/orientation. Diner, Park, Stairs, and central lobby were all different looking enough that there were no issues learning the map.
-You might need a couple of ranged weapon options to counter the Binary Rifle; a BR or a Carbine somewhere might provide some more compelling weapon choices.
-A little awkwardness moving across the Binary spawn from Diner to the vent; you may want to angle the vent's entrance a bit so the path is more obvious, and so there's an "oshit I need to run away" point when you're under fire at Binary spawn, but this may just be personal preference/salt.
+Deceptive simplicity - little touches like the various hallways and connections between rooms gave a learning curve to what would on the surface seem to be a super simple layout; these increased the depth involved in map knowledge, and I found myself learning to exploit the various flanking methods for each area the more we played it. I think the "Sworbital" description you gave is spot on; it really feels like the best elements of Sword Base and Orbital were merged together in this map.


Wet Dre@m
+Cool layout, plus the frozen ponds are an interesting touch. The poolhouse aesthetic is definitely something you could roll with when you start arting it up.
-Massively overscaled for Halo 5 gameplay, in the lateral sense; the verticality was fine. I'd reduce the lateral scaling by about 25-30% across the board.
-We called the Strongholds "Ramp," "Pool," and "Big Ass Room" when playing. You'll definitely need to come up with something interesting to add to "Big Ass Room" because the area was super boring.
+Paths were super intuitive.
+Speed Boost was necessary to even play the version we tested; but if you reduce the scaling I think it'll have your intended effect and actually be a pretty compelling powerup on the map.

 

Gamertag = Username
Map- Oblation, emphasis on the WIP
Download Link
Gametypes- Slayer, Oddball, Strongholds (that last one I'm expecting to be a little shaky)
WIP Thread

Currently considering redoing blue area, changing some aesthetics

 

I've caught the last few games of your last few streams, do you have them available for viewing later? If so.. Any chance I could get tests on Goliath 1.5.0 one of these nights? We just updated it slightly fixing some stuff from the update. We're not going to be changing anything major as we are personally satisfied and it plays as intended. We're mostly looking for spawn issues, frame drops and see how its received with your group of testers. However, I will take into consideration anything that is said.

Here's a link Incase. http://www.forgehub.com/maps/goliath.1921/

It's understandable if you don't want to be testing "finished" maps due to demand of maps that haven't been tested to the extend this has. And apologies if I am not submitting correctly, I haven't read the original post since it was originally posted. Feel free to yell at me. it's a good thing you got going here.

 

I have gone through and opened up the wall to green room, and fixed the stronghold locations!
I think it will help a lot. I may have to mess around with the pathing TO overshield as you mentioned, though. at least visually. I'll see what I can do, and I'll look around the map to see if there are any other unnecessary walls or columns.
I am happy with plasma hall as it can be a great flank but punishing path, if that is what you are referring to..?

 

Would it be possible for you to test my map Vivarium? I'll be on a road trip this weekend and away from my Xbone, so wouldn't be able to attend the lobby. In initial test it was deemed confusing by a few players, but once everyone got accustomed to the map it became super sweaty. Currently CTF and Assault have been tested, but Slayer hasn't. It isn't designed for slayer, so CTF, Assault, and Strongholds are the only modes I would want tested.

If you consider it, here's a map link.

EDIT: I'll finally have a working mic next week, so I'll try real dang hard to attend the lobby, that is, if you let me in.

 

I'm not referring to plasma hall itself - the one made of flipped cargo containers - but rather the path to the outside of it, the one that runs past those windows-in-need-of-slight-frosting. I noticed that the path really restricted movement and kind of stopped the general clockwise flow on the map in Strongholds; it seemed like the only "missing link" in enabling a rock-paper-scissors type flow from Stronghold to Stronghold. Almost all the fights were happening from Sniper side to the other end, so opening it up wider so you could travel in a direct line toward the Sniper is what I was getting at. I can get on and show you what I mean in 30ish minutes or so if you're available!

 

OHHHHHHHHH

I totally get you now. I can see what you are saying. More of a 45 instead of 90. (That might not be the best way to put it) but I totally understand now. I could maybe tweak that. For sure. I'll have to play it again to see if it bothers me, and now that you mention it, I could see that bothering me haha

 

I touched up the map and I think it is the strongest it will get quite honestly.

• Opened up wall to green room
• fixed stronghold locations
• Expanded overshield pipe catwalk toward snipe room window
• Improved jump ups to overshield pipe catwalk
• improved jump to snipe window
• expanded sniper room to open sigh lines and dance floor

I would love to get more testing on the map

 

GAMERTAG: Scrub Meee
MAP: Frigid 1.0
GAMETYPE: Strongholds, CTF, Slayer (4v4)

 

Hi xdemption,

After watching last weeks stream and testing again with Max Extra I have made changes and seems like Jarvik Prime is almost a finished product.

I'd love to see you test it again and potentially see the UCC lobby run some games on it.

If you would like to go over/run the map to see the changes I have a new file.

Take care,
Lotus