Some insight from Fyrewulff: https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199368334&postcount=2590 https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199371626&postcount=2591
Well, my (and many other forgers) first wind of it was when seeing those videos. By then, it is a little late. I suppose I should just stay more active on Forgehub to stay in the loop. I just know that I am not alone in thinking that I wish there were more CCs that would get more involved with forgers through XBL and not require use of Forgehub. With all of that said however, I want to try not to be overly critical of the way things have gone since, as with anything, it is impossible for someone who is not directly involved with the organization process and the communication with 343i in this case, to understand the constraints and limitations to running this. I am sure there is a lot that goes into getting everything coordinated and many of us should probably not be so quick to judge. As long as there isn't any rude or elitist attitudes, I'd rather be understanding and appreciative of what you all do even if I don't fully understand. I do appreciate what you all do for the community and I am sure there is even more behind the scenes that we don't even see. As for suggestions for improvement... I think I'll try to get more involved in the next round of map testing etc. before I comment specifically on the map testing. My primary suggestions at this point (for what they're worth): -better community announcements ahead of time (not just a Forgehub thread either) -more lobbies if there is a need (instead of multiple CCs in 1 lobby, have them each host 1) -The CCs could consider tasking some trusted friends (several of them) with reaching out further into the pool of forgers. Look at more maps, play in custom lobbies outside of your common groups, and organize "mini" test lobbies them selves, then they can bring the best that they find to the CCs for further assessment & testing. (At least this way the reach into the pool will be deeper, and the community will likely feel more "community" with these people as their maps can at least be subtly on the radar -lastly (and probably most importantly)..(whether you feel as though people's accusations are warranted or not) make sure to be friendly to the community, don't act entitled or rude, and make liars out of the folks that accuse you.
I agree and disagree. Everything is about people's opinions and how what they think will effect things. When most people are put into a position that is labeled higher than the rest or most then it is natural for them to feel more important and higher above everyone else. It is commonly seen in clans and is why clans that go unchecked will ultimately run on corruption or fall apart. If the people realize a problem and make their opinion heard like this thread is doing then often times that will lead to a path of change. Peoples opinions matter because like i stated in my previous post it is the people in the community that hold certain individuals higher than others mainly due to their title. Also it is the opinions of the community that have a heavy influence on what goes on so if a site or a company is not able to keep the community happy or at an equilibrium then they will have a mess on their hands and wounds that will take long to heal. Those that spread negativity or seem to cause problems, no matter what position they hold, will often times get what comes to them. Those that make the most noise are those that are most recognized. Sometimes it takes a lot of noise for something to be done and maybe this is the noise that will lead to the system getting fixed and maybe those that have been accused will start to change their attitudes. The voice of the people can move mountains, whether it is in politics or just in a gaming community. I am not trying to take sides here since i have no strong opinions about anyone yet besides the couple of forgers that I have talked more to and know a little better. I am just speaking in general to the whole situation and the underlying problem the best I can.
Am I the only one who thinks the lack of tree options is probably the most important point brought up during these last eight pages?
Figured I'd sign up after lurking the site for a while. Interesting read, all eight pages too. I've only really got one question - why is there so much secrecy when the community cartographers and 343 Industries are looking for maps? I really don't have much, if any, knowledge on the process back in Reach and Halo 4 so maybe they were open about it but in Halo 5, it looks like they're very quiet about it. I don't remember what happened with the Breakout maps, I re-call just seeing a community playlist popup one day and there were ten(?) maps in there that would have voting for at the end of the week or something, to which six of them got in. With Big Team Battle, I literally didn't hear anything about it except for seeing Unyshek playing custom games with a few people like Vetoed and MATCLAN. Was there a public announcement anywhere so people knew to start working on maps and/or submit their already created variants? Same for Grifball. And with Doubles, all I saw was a post from MultiLockOn saying they were taking the top maps from the ForgeHub contest and making a playlist out of it. Was there ever a public announcement of this anywhere on FH, r/Halo, Waypoint, etc? Thanks in advance for the reply.
The **** are you talking about? This is not the end of forgehub, you are actually retarded if you think this little tiff will bring the community down.
Here you go: (press the arrow after "said:" to be taken to the post) I mentioned this in my first post in this thread, should've probably quoted it as well. What irks me is the word choices. "I wanted to keep that as a surprise" translates to the secrecy being artificial, not because of the NDA. Further, this announcement should've never been made on page 206 of any thread. It also goes back to my earlier point that suggests the cartographers purposely chose not to let us know in order to keep the number of entries down. A monetary prize for the best map with some consolation prizes influences the number of people who participate. The people who didn't think they had a chance of winning the grand prize didn't waste their valuable time participating. I am one of those people. If we had known that a dozen maps would get put into matchmaking, there would've been so many submissions that the judges would've been up for weeks straight testing them all. I would've dropped everything and worked on a 2v2 map. I couldn't care less about a monetary prize when I know I wouldn't win it, but a majority of the forgers on this website are capable of making something that could place in the top 12.
You're essentially answering your own concerns. This is the reason these things usually aren't supposed to be made public. Everyone and their mothers suddenly drop every other project and focus on making things with the sole intent of getting into matchmaking. That's not how the Cartographer system is supposed to work, and that's not how the Forge community is supposed to grow. People should build the kinds of maps they know they are good at and enjoy making at a natural pace. The Cartographers will then keep an eye out for noteworthy maps and keep a list for when certain maps are needed, then cherry pick the best from around the community. Of course, this is the original goal and only works in an ideal world, which we clearly don't live in. Things get leaked, then small groups of people focus on building specifically for matchmaking, and anyone who didn't hear about it gets upset. Once again, this is boiling down to a flawed system, in both foundations and in human error. One idea that has popped up that could work is a monthly list showing numbers of noteworthy maps in each category. At the end of every month, this list would be updated and give people an idea of what's being looked at, how many good maps are out there, and and which category is growing faster. For example, one months says there are 12 BTB maps, 8 4V4 maps, 15 2V2 maps, 17 Infection maps, etc. The next month, the 4V4 category increases by 9, while the others only increase by 2 or 3, meaning 4V4s are probably being looked at. This way, people can see the trends and choose to cater their forging to it without having to be told directly what the next task is, when maps are due, and no NDAs are broken. When a task does come around, the Cartographers can simply pull from this list and work with the authors directly if necessary. Combining this with either more Cartographers or more people gathering content for the Cartographers can lead to a system where people can safely get an idea of what's being looked at, build for certain needs, and hopefully get more content passing in front of the Cartographers and even 343.
Just wanted to do my duty to express my personal experience. On the topic of the BTB stuff, I am neither a super regular FH/HC user nor am I friends with any of the CC's. I am also pretty new to forge. Yet it was extremely easy for me to participate in the HC BTB testing lobbies. All I had to do is follow the instructions and show up on time, easy enough. As far as people not getting into the party chat, that was a real problem due to Xbox Party size capping out so not everyone could get in. However we did always switch to game chat, so it was a solid temporary work around for those not in the party due to Xbox Live restrictions.
I understand your thoughts about me, but I was originally brought on for the Race matchmaking playlist. It is true I don't know a ton about level design, but I am mainly there to help collect maps, give opinion (even if it isn't the best for slayer) and the "professional" race guy if they bring back that playlist. A lot of us have our specialties like Nok being Grifball and I think that is good so we have someone on the team for each gametype. You may think I just isolate myself to my YouTube channel because I don't comment on here that often, but I'm not much of a forum guy. I interact a TON with the community through gamenights, twitter, twitch (I stream gamenights multiple times a week normally) and just playing with people. I am always checking out peoples creations no matter who they are and I give them feedback when they ask (which is a lot...lol). Just over the past week I have looked at over 30 maps and gave feedback. That amount of maps doesn't happen every week, but most of the time I average about 15 maps a week. I am not upset that you don't believe I should be a Cartographer because you may not know what I do for the community since I don't interact much here on Forge Hub... But I have always highly interacted with the community on a daily basis
There was never announcements for any of them. I check forgehub, forge.world, beyond, r/halo, waypoint, YouTube, all at least 15 times a day. I get on Xbox almost every day. I talk to forgers almost every day. By the time I heard they were looking for maps it was only a week or two until the deadline and was told through the grapevine.
I apologize for any conversations that may be halted by this, but the thread creator has requested this thread be locked, and I think we're to the point of repeating the same points over and over now, so I'm going to honor his request. If you care to continue a conversation, please do it through PM.