Are you making maps for Forgehub or making maps that you want to make? I personally don't like symmetric maps that 1. Rely on color coding for orientation. 2. Don't play asymmetric gametypes very well. Slayer, Oddball, King of the HIll and Strongholds are all asymmetric gametypes with dynamic spawning. 3. Play bigger than they need to be due to half of the map being flipped 4. Have the player run to the middle of the map and just watch the other half. That doesn't mean I'm never going to make, play or like a symmetric map. The majority of the maps I want to make suit asymmetry better, and asymmetry allows me to be more creative with geometry and themes. If I were to work on a symmetric map again, I would focus on addressing the things I don't like about them. This ties into what I mentioned in the other thread: 1. Using lighting and geometric variation for orientation as opposed to color gradation. 2. Making it play asymmetrically to support asymmetric gametypes. 3. Coiling it in a such a way that there isn't any unnecessary space. 4. Creating several lines of symmetry so that playing the middle isn't the only way to play the map. Others may have their own opinions and prefereces, but it isn't a Halo exclusive thing. Symmetric maps are generally avoided in most games unless they're designed specifically for symmetric gametypes like Capture the Flag. Halo 5 actually has an unusually high number of symmetric maps.
I personally like symmetrical designs better. I feel symmetrical maps are far more challenging to make play well and interestingly. Edit: And honestly, most of the asymetral maps that play well have very symmetrical pathing. A lot of asyms that I build on paper are basically pseudo-symmetrical. Like Goliath for example. There are no crazy advantages, power position, routes or weapon that one side offers that the other doesn't.
That is why CE a game with mostly nothing but asyms. had probably the most competitive meta. Also it is usually pretty obvious if an asym. is going to play bad without playing it. They are kind of the same thing sure a sym might be balanced from a base to base perspective but the sides and los can cause just as much imbalance as an asym. That is why you can only predict so much with any map you make as far as gameplay. It is really irritating when someone says once you reach a certain point as a designer you should always know how your map plays. This is just a terrible mindset. Not saying you have it. I am just ranting.
A symmetrical map literally has halve the potential meta of a asym maps. Asym is just infinity more interesting as well to play and watch, a big reason why none of the bigger competitive games now (or in history) are not perfectly symmetrical starts and maps. And from a design point of view, the challenges of designing an asym just seem more appealing. I feel in Halo "balance" is used too much, and ends up restricting design because people are too worried to embrace asymmetry and accept the fact that, at certain points in a game, one team has to overcome a disadvantage. Even in symmetrical gametypes like CTF, Ive always found asym maps much more interesting to play in other games (with 2 rounds of course)
I could see a map like Infernal existing in Halo 5 where it was set inside a mountain on Sanghelios. Could be some kind of council chamber resting above a huge lava flow.
Always found asymmetric maps in all games to be more enjoyable to play, but I've always had difficulty making them how I want. I can pump out symmetric maps like nobodies business, but my asymmetric ones are always better, even if they take me forever to get right.
Another thing I have never liked about certain syms. specifically in halo is that there are literally only a couple of playstyle's they support. I do think inverse syms can be really cool though. Since most of them could be asyms. with slight adjustments. Fathom is arguably the least interesting thing I have ever seen that is inverse though.
When you guys say inversely symmetrical, you mean a map that's "S"-shaped (e.g. one half is flipped 180 degrees for symmetry) rather than a map that's "3"-shaped (e.g. one half is mirrored across the horizontal axis for symmetry), right? If so, I'm infinitely less worried about the map I'm working on right now, considering it's inversely symmetrical.
Yes, Inverse symmetrical maps have one point of rotational symmetry. I personally prefer mirror symmetric maps if they are symmetrical at all, since you can set them up to play asymmetrically much better than inverse ones can. With inverse symmetry you have the same exact encounters on both sides and you can't make it play asymmetric (not necessarily a bad thing). With mirror symmetry you can have it play along the line of symmetry so that the map feels asymmetric and plays that way, but really isn't.
Even though they go all the way back to CE, for some reason I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around mirror-symmetrical maps because they can be rigged so as to play asymmetrically. Is there some broad gameplay element inverse syms can handle better than outright asym maps?
Going all the way back, maps like Wizard and Derelict played FFA better than anything else on them in my opinion, you can take that however you will. Later maps like Citadel where it was inverse but it was large enough for actual full teams of 4 was when I started to like them for objective games like KOTH and Oddball. I think both types of maps have their place, but I just really like that you can set a mirror symmetrical map to have mirrored spawns for stuff like slayer, multiflag and assault, but flip them 90 degrees for one flag and have it play completely different.
If anyone rembers my post from yesterday I must say the progress on the map is coming along great. Its gonna be geared toward 2v2 gameplay and the design is based mainly off standoff but Is more aggressively sloped creating lower lows and higher highs to work better with halo 5s mechanic s. The interior of the bases, which are now adobe homes, are also much smaller and concise to work better for 2v2. The astheitic will be pulled off without flaw. A meteorite collsion (which will be in the skybox) will be the cause for the decimation and evacuation of the mysterious race that used to dwell among these hill sides. The middle "spartan laser channel" from standoff is now a dried out river bed and that is where the magika crystal resides. I'm so excited for this map. Never has there been a forge map with this sort of theme yet, and I think it will impress a lot of you when finished!
Can we refer to mirror as 1 line symmetry or 2 line. Because technically with mirror symmetry you can have even more of the same encounters than inverse. 2 lines and 4 lines both function symmetrically at a greater level than inverse. The thing that is nice about inverse is that the point directly in front of it is different and not just the same thing mirrored. That is why it easier for someone to turn an inverse into an asym. Aschur you are referring to 1 line of symmetry btw.
@no god anywhere Just make whatever you want, for any reason you want. If you prefer to play symmetrical maps, and you want to make maps that you enjoy playing, then make symmetrical maps.
I love being kicked from forge sessions for no reason. My party chat still worked, my internet was fine, it just kicks you for no reason and I can't even get into a lobby on my own in arena, forge, anything. Whoever decided on this dedicated server nonsense needs to be purged.
This game isn't even on the top 10 most played, there can't be more than 15k people on right now. How are the servers having issues, I literally don't understand what could possibly be causing them stress. I feel like I'm going to explode.