Thats a good Idea, I'll try some stuff on that ledge. As for the scaling, I intentionally made it so that the map could play both 2v2s and 4v4s. I'm sure I don't have to explain myself on that one. If it becomes clear over testing that more people prefer the larger version for 8 players, I will restrict this version to 2v2s. Anyways, thanks for all the suggestions and giving it straight.
I think this is pretty much why we don't see many lower ratings. It's not easy telling people that the map they spent a ton of time on isn't the greatest thing ever made. It's especially true when it's with people you interact with...people who help with testing...people who can also rate your maps. It's kind of understandable. That said, I'm all for critical reviews, and I hope more people will feel comfortable both giving and receiving critical reviews, especially ones that are supported through good reasoning and/or advice.
I will say I don't expect to ever produce anything higher that a 3 or so, so I wouldn't be offended. I've heard several people say they're maps are amazing, or are definitely gonna make it into matching, etc etc, so who knows how they would respond. But I have yet to see anything that I would call matchmaking quality.
only reason i don't share critical feedback is because i don't think i have any credibility. anytime i post, i expect half the responses to be "lolno goat finish your own map first" and yea most people don't want to hear that their map has fundamental problems and they need to fix or scrap it. it sucks having your hard work stomped on, but that's the responsibility of the creator when they put it out there for others to experience. it's why i don't put something out until i find it fun to play. i suppose i wont pull punches anymore though. i've always been one to critique the creation and not the creator because there are no bad ideas, just ideas that don't work together.
(Don't feel obligated to respond to this, 3LG) I can actually vouch for "having hard work stomped on." Some moderator on forgehub posted on my map in Halo 3 with a formal review giving it a mediocre score, and the review was done without my awareness or permission beforehand. It wasn't actually my design, but I still really liked the map and was pissed to see the review (I look back at it now and realize it was pretty justified, but that's besides the point). As for leaving feedback on other people's maps, honestly I think a big part of it is how you present your feedback to people. Things such as letting them know whether you played the map or just walked on it, being polite and not coming off as an anus, and then providing suggestions to follow your problems with the map. Although if someone's map can be "torn apart" per se, then maybe it's helpful to point out one glaring flaw you'd like that person to fix instead of barraging them with multiple things to save you both time and stress. I wouldn't concern yourself with having "creditiblity." There's nothing wrong with providing your thoughts on a map if something about it bothers you (just a matter of supporting your points); it's up to them to take it or leave it. I have given feedback for multiple maps during late Halo Reach and early Halo 4. I can always be wrong about something, but I was interested in helping people and felt that I could. @aPK : I say go for it, except my main piece of advice is getting the map creator's permission before you review people's maps that in-depth. Let them mentally prepare; otherwise if they don't want any part of it, that's their problem.
@aPK: I support the idea, and I assume you're prepared for the backlash you'll inevitably receive. I've never been one that pays much mind to ratings, but as long as the review criticizes the 'flaws' and proposes fixes, then it will be a good thing for everybody. I wish more people took that initiative. I'll keep an eye out for those reviews.
i hate it when after I finish a test session with a full group and all i get is "it was good." I would love someone to tear my map apart for having the plasma grenades off center, or having blue spawns slightly more ahead of the reds. That said I think a lot of people are too scared of coming off rude and hateful when giving that kind of feedback. But I would rather receive that feedback and fix an issue rather than get "It was good," and not fix it. Kinda like the red team initial spawn that spawns on blue base on that map in matchmaking that i cant remember the name of. that standoff re imagination. ------ On topic mode activated----- Anyway I have been working on 3 maps of very different styles incorporating very different objects. The rough builds are done and so fa I am very happy with how they are coming along. I'll have pictures soon. probably later in the week after i finish working in the feedback i got earlier tonight. But here's a general rundown. One is a forerunner inspired fast paced symmetrical map. Another is a remake/re-imagination of Simplex utilizing a very covie look. The last one is an asymmetrical UNSC map, inspired from an image BBS shared with me. Wall of text done.
When the Dedicated Servers are up, I am currently working on a remake of the Q3Live STF Map Space. Working on the basic layout and length. Then working on the Man-cannons, teleports etc. I think I will need to get a custom gametype but it might work on default.
In-depth reviews are the best. Sure, it is nice when someone makes a short, positive comment, but when I see a wall of text commented on my map I honestly get butterflies. That is why I really liked the review hub. I hope we can see it come back some time soon.
Reading the descriptions on some of the warzone req weapons, really wish we could place them in forge.
Same here, would also be nice to have all the weapons from previous halo games like the hammer or brute shot added as well, though that would take a bit more work for them than just adding req weapons.
I have a hunch we will see the hammer in the next update. Along with infection, grifball and a better fileshare. Also I believe it's been confirmed we will eventually see reqs in forge. Imagine the mini games!
Working on my map for the 2v2 contest. I would appreciate some help playtesting if anyone is interested in getting a lobby together.
Brief gameplay clips from a super experimental, vertical, and asymmetrical work-in-progress 2v2/4v4 level design that implements heroism/hero's journey storytelling concepts and spontaneous creative play within gameplay design. In mass out stage; map name, environment art, and weapon set are all placeholder. Enjoy a sneak peak into Fated mad scientist level design , and thanks to Shifty for most of the gameplay. Footage captured from initial mass out playtests last night--zero spawning issues so far. There are also 3 nerdy toy spacecraft on the map, and each contains a special gift that changes sword gameplay
i honestly don't see what's so experimental about this, i've seen people make maps like this since i joined the community back in reach. also not likeing the "heroism" terminology... personally i view a map as a tool with each are providing options for players to use, from there its up to the players on how they use it. as for that map, biggest issue i can clearly see from that video is that you're going to be spending too much time navigating to find people because of the amount of isolation created from the verticallity, building-esque structures and a really large scale.
The amount of movement opportunity and potential for spontaneous creative play across an original, smaller scale map design that features 4 levels, multiple death pits, and an open nature is quite experimental, especially since the map is defined by so much true vertical gameplay (i.e. quickly moving from level to level in overlapped space via drop downs, jump ups, lifts, etc.) compared to a map like Trinity, for example, which has massive height variation but lacks verticality. Not picking on Trinity in particular for any reason by the way, its just a distinction worth noting. Tall spaces =/= vertical gameplay. In my opinion, heroism is everything in level & gameplay design. We are escape artists who create spaces which allow players to engage in extraordinary experiences that are otherwise unavailable in everyday life--experiences where they can be badass heroes and live to tell the tale. Players should be ecstatic about their gameplay experiences on your level, sharing stories of amazing gameplay feats that they pulled off both individually and in coordination with others. I love to create spaces that foster heroic storytelling, and the best inspiration for this is something known as the hero's journey: a storytelling concept used in one way or another across almost every story you've ever read and/or watched. The heroes are almost always sent on a perilous journey to reach catharsis, and those who survive this journey return empowered to make an impact and change the world. Game designers often create parallels between the hero's journey and experiences in their game, such as: Forcing players to give up positioning and descend to the lowest/most dangerous part of the map to pick up a power weapon (whether that be rockets, camo, etc.) is equivalent to descending to the depths of hell, overcoming great peril, and then returning to the surface further empowered than before. Warh0lic sent players to the bottom of a volcano on his map Aorta in order to pick up the incineration cannon, quite literally sending players into the pits of hell to return with the power of fire Forcing players to give up positioning and ascend to the highest/most exposed part of the map to pick up a power weapon is equivalent to ascending to the heavens and gliding down with new wings By designing gameplay experiences that parallel the perilous journeys described above (plus many others - let your imagination run wild) you can effectively foster heroic storytelling. This is somewhat of the sixth sense of level/gameplay design, and requires you to be both aware of and sensitive to the moment-to-moment thoughts and emotions felt by players in gameplay. This is why Warh0lic, Xzamples, Shifty, and I (as well as many others) will literally run circles around our maps for hours as we build. We are imagining moment-to-moment gameplay experience and analyzing what player psychology will be with every interaction across the level, whether that interaction be with other players, geometry, movement, etc. In regards to your concerns about not finding players Haunted, that is somewhat of the antithesis of my map design philosophy. I prefer very fast, open gameplay experiences where players constantly see and combat enemies, and the testers last night were just learning the map for the first time. The gameplay was not the best example of how the map will play over time. Thank you for your feedback however, and I will keep it in mind as I continue refining the design.
vertical, open maps are nothing new, i've acorn, atlasisshruggin, saltykoalabear and chronomeister, to name a few, make some that worked so its already a proven concept and not experimental, might be new for you but it isn't something that new and experimental in the halo world of map design, hell just look at hang em high and prisoner. what you're doing is just another variation on a proven design style in halo and isn't anything special. i honestly have no idea what you're going on about with "true verticality" and stating it alongside "experimental" stinks of fluff to try and make your map sound better and unique compared to all the other maps that have already done the exact same thing. what the hell is even "true vertical" gameplay anyway? vertical gameplay is just the act of moving vertically and interacting between the different elevations, if all you have is vertical movement but not the vertical interaction then what you're creating is a more battle tower style map where you progress through floors fighting mostly on that same floor, not a vertical map. to put it simply, does the map have vertical movement and vertical interaction? then its a "true" vertical map. instead of replying to all the heroism story telling crap, this is multiplayer player vs player not a story telling mode and trying to tell a story when players are trying to compete with each other in a play space detracts from the overall gameplay because of the focus on story telling and not gameplay balance. i'm going to ask what the **** is heroism? heroism is something entirely subjective to the player, and, when you make these "heroic feats" the core focus of your map so its what players do normally when playing your map, at what point does it stop being heroic and start becoming standard, normal gameplay for that map? the whole thing makes no god damn sense. if i was to define heroic feats in player vs player multiplayer i would define it as a player overcoming all the odds stacked against him and turning a bad situation around, if i was to make this a focus of my map i would end up making a heavily exploitable, poorly balanced map where such feats would be coming place from abusing those exploits, it would no longer be heroic but horrible gameplay. as for your map, in the video most of it was just going over the same lifts over and over thrusting and ground pounding to the person location of choice searching for people to fight. there didn't appear to be much in the way of position, solid paths, potential strats but instead forces to players to go flying around the map in an open, exposed manner making them target practice to the people sitting in there nice cozy cover.