Lost Causeway Players: 8-10 Gametypes: One Flag CTF, Slayer, KOTH Power Weapons: Sniper Rifle 120s 1 clip, Rocket Launcher 120s no clip, Suppressed SMG x2 60s 1clip Powerups: Overshield 120s, Active Camo 120s Scroll Down to see how the map has changed. I'll be trying to get lobbies together for Flag maps in the coming weeks. If anyone gets into one, please shoot me an invite. Thanks. Feedback is Appreciated. GT: Chronmeister Map: Lost Causeway
This looks pretty good for 1 flag. I'll have to take a better look at somepoint. If I finish any of mine for this squad battle maybe we would get some people together for testing. I do have a few concerns though, only some of them can be helped. The maps seems a bit tight for the warthog. Though on the other hand the map looks WAY too big for 4v4 and even quite a bit big for 5v5. My suggestion would be to remove the hog and maybe add a ghost or if you feel absolutely necessary a mongoose. Hogs mostly just lead to shenanigans anyway and with 4v4-5v5, that leaves 3 people on foot, 2 actual players if someone has a flag. And if you remove the hog you could probably scale it down to a slightly more fitting size. Otherwise, the routing and lines of sight seem really good. The only thing holding this back is forcing the warthog from what I can see. Best of luck man, get me in a lobby if you see me on.
Wow, I was worried the map was too small. I thought having a warthog was a pretty big deal to the contest judges, so I kinda designed the map around having one. It is a little cramped right now though for cornering and all the pathways would be easier to navigate with a mongoose. I hope to test it with you soon. Thanks for taking the time to leave some good feedback.
Warthogs only lead to shenanigans... in the hands of unskilled players. To a well-coordinated team with a solid driver/gunner combo on the right map, a warthog can be the defining factor which turns the tide of battle. That concept is pretty central to the entire idea of squad games which is what this contest is all about. The map does look a bit tight for 'hogs for sure. However, if the map was designed around 'hogs it may be worth accommodating for them with some tweaks to the map geometry rather than removing them. 'Hogs are certainly a big deal in this contest, but a map which is exceptional in other ways will do just fine without them; it's your call. Perhaps trying a variant with 'hogs (and seeing how they work in the hands of the right team) and a variant without would be the best option. I look forward to playing this soon.
From what I can tell from the video, having a Warthog on the map is a bit awkward. I think a mongoose/gungoose would be more fitting/mobile and fit the size of the map! Really like the map from what I can tell from the pictures/video.
I made some changes to accommodate for the Warthog. I may still make a separate mongoose version, but I think these changes will make cornering quite a bit easier in spots.
Just my opinion from my personal experiences. Squad doesn't usually attract players that want to devise a plan before making a move, rather they sit in the gunner seat in a hog until someone drives them, or drives aimlessly on a mongoose until they die. And again just in my opinion, I feel that especial in dev maps that the warthog is the only factor in who wins or loses because the map is scaled to accommodate for hog movement and leave loads of negative space for the infantry. So all in all, I feel it would play better without it in general regardless of how balanced it is. All opinions aside, I think it's safe to say this map is slightly tight for one and maybe another vehicle could replace it and fuction better.
We are not looking for overscaled maps which encourage casual, mindless play with vehicles and big explosions to keep people interested. These may be common characteristics of classic big team play, but they are not present in succesful squad designs. The mindset that vehicles inherently promote this sort of gameplay is a close-minded, outdated, and overall false one. Vehicles can work as an additional competitive layer in maps which otherwise incorporate traditional elements of core Halo design. This is a difficult balance to strike, and one which many are unaware of as it has not been done in dev maps, but it absolutely can be done. There are several forge maps which prove this, and the hope is that there will be several more developed over the course of this contest. Perhaps you should listen to this: Sorry to go somewhat off-topic in your thread, Chronmeister. I think that the distinction between casual classic BTB and competitive squad is an important one for people to understand, though.
Personally I think this competitive side of squad is really in your head. No disrespect but I feel like you want it to be competitive so much that you can't look past that it really is not. Especially because it's something the halo developers aren't intending it to be. It's not that I am being close minded but that I am open to the fact that it simply isn't there. I get that it's opinionated and all but there is a point where the competitive depth ends. A part of that is the lack of a community to base this on (which is nonexistent aside from you and very small handful of others.) and partly because halos mechanics (h2a especially) do not allow it. Vehicles are imbalanced to the game mechanics, regardless of map design, though map design further separates the ability to e competitive. Titanfall, being solely based on the balance between the 2 couldn't hold a competitive community and it is because that's not what competitive players want to play and halo isn't even close to that level of balance or meta skill. I have watched the videos about it. I'm very interested in different opinions and defferent design theories. Nearly any thing 'can' work, so it's quite intriguing. Realistically though it seems like you are trying to convince yourself that it's there rather than making solid statements. In theory you would be right and if you are going to attempt it, I'd say your way is probably the way to go but looking from a players perspective and looking at the community, you are leagues from it and theres no evidence yet to suggest it every works. Even one of my favorite forgers shares your opinion and no matter how good maps you guys make there are other factors besides map design that prove you wrong. And yeah, sorry chronmeister. But at least you are learning both sides of the argument and what the judges feel is most important. I built my map around the same ideas, in a slightly more balanced way in my opinion. Good luck to you. After this weekend I will be hosting some lobbies, I am trying to fill them with more player than forgers but you are welcome to join and test as well! Let m know if you want any help testing or suggestions!
Here is what the judges thought at HaloCustoms. Lost Causeway by @Chronmeister: Last night's test was brief, lopsided, and not particularly indicative of how the map plays. The map could benefit from more focus, however. Currently, there is an excess of routes (particularly through the bottom of the map) and platforms (particularly around the perimeter of the map). Many of these are somewhat redundant and could be combined to create a more focused, refined gameplay experience. There are also many paper-thin walls and small columns throughout the map which do not provide adequate cover. The warthog is currently relegated to a semi-mobile support role as the narrow vehicle routes do not give it the freedom to effectively traverse the map. Combining routes and positions should allow more room for the vehicles to move. I got another test on it yesterday that was a lot more balanced. I can say that getting a capture is very hard with even teams. No one was able to cap it, but two rounds ended with the flag less than 5 units from the cap point. It was a pretty intense match and the ghost saw some good use. Unfortunately I think I am going to have to breakdown and remove the Warthog from the map. All the jumps work great for the Ghost and Mongoose, but the Warthog is just a little too difficult to maneuver around corners. I went back into forge for a few hours messing with how I could replace my thin columns and walls, but the result wasn't pretty. I agree that using thins is usually a bad idea, but I did so because I wanted to maximize the dancefloor in those areas. I am curious to know specifically what routes were thought to be excessive or redundant because I feel I need all the connections I have in place.
I got some good feedback from Wednesday's lobby. Here it is... Lost Causeway by @Chronmeister : The flag needs to be pulled up to allow for defense team back spawning. Similarly, the return point could be raised up some and require a bit more looping around to get to so it is not so easily scored. The lower spawn area for offense was both a little too far back and was too exposed to a push by defense. The core issue here was the lack of other places for offense to spawn. Providing alternatives will help to alleviate this. There were a few frame rate drops on the map, likely due to scenery and terrain featured outside of the map itself. I totally agree with everything this time and have made some changes to the map to hopefully fix the issues. This is the new base for the attackers. They spawn just to the left of where the blue guy is standing. The position should be much easier to defend now and the ghost should have a tougher time trying to get any sort of control in that area. Flag capture point is now around two units higher and requires a tiny bit of looping around from the lower levels. Flag stand has been moved up with team spawns (flag home) remaining the same. I moved two sets of flag away spawns farther back from the center of the map as well. (During last test after flag was grabbed, the defenders were spawning too close to the attackers base making it too easy for them to shut down the flag run.) I also removed all the trees from the background and took out the lights in the corner tower. Framerate seems better, but I will have to see if it holds up with players on the map. Looking forward to testing it soon!
I made a bunch of changes today to free up some blocks. I used those blocks to replace all the thin columns and Brace Large walls. I also thickened all the walls on the outer two towers and doubled up all the bridges so everything is a minimum of .5 units wide. Framerate actually got noticeably better after the changes were made as well. The flag return is now just the elevated platform and the block bridge. No walls are protecting the return point and I moved the cap point back a bit to allow a better sightline to it from the cave area. Updated version is in my Fileshare. GT: Chronmeister Map: Lost Causeway
I updated the map again today. -created 1x1 window in cover wall on ramp approach to outer defender tower -reworked arch/bridge from top mid street to corner tower -minimized rocks on the map as much as I could without sacrificing anything noticeable I spent a bunch of time trying to fix some lighting issues I was having on the block walls of the defender tower. After minimizing my object count as much as possible didn't work on two 1x1 shorts, I switched them for tall and thins and the problem is now solved. Framerate is now great as far as I can tell.
I got another test in today and decided to take a more drastic approach to adding cover. This is the biggest change to the map yet. I added a hard route to corner tower (now purple tower) from defenders side and opened it up to the center street. Tower callouts should be much easier now. I also switched the position of the OS and Active Camo to give the attackers a better shot at getting to the flag. Fileshare has been updated.
Checkout the new gameplay footage for attackers and defenders on the updated version. (Video on top of page has been updated)
I know I have been posting way too much on my own thread, but I made another big change this morning and I wanna share it. This should solve the last problem I was having with the map which was spawn trapping. I now have spawn points set up in two main areas for the attackers. I'm not sure which ones the game will favor yet when the base isn't being pushed, but I think both are in a good spot with multiple options. The old area is still in use under the stone arch and right next to it behind the block bridge. The spawn area that was on the attackers side of green street has been pushed back into a U shaped cave with an entrance leading to green street and the other leading to the flag cap platform. This should allow attackers plenty of cover when spawning and give the game plenty of options for covered places to have attackers respawn when the defenders are attempting to trap. Take a look at the pics...
So I have been thinking about the feedback I received last lobby for a few days now and have been trying to figure out how to make running the flag cliff route harder. I started off by moving my Flag Away spawns into a better postion to counter this run. I think this will make a pretty big difference on its own, but I did a few other small things to make the route more dangerous. The rock arch that the attackers would try to run under to get a covered route to flag cap has been cut down by at least two units and is now the width of one seastack. The flag return is also in a better spot which requires the attackers to cross back into the line of sight of sniper spawn and green street. At rocket bridge, the archway that faced the cliff route has been raised up enough to give a clear sightline whereas before you could only see the lower path and the upper cliff was completely out of view. The last changes I made were to add a small ledge into purple from bottom green and to pull back an OP ledge near defenders cave. The pic below show the new Flag Away Spawn Zones and the new flag capture point.
Big Changes Flag can no longer be run on area where cliff route used to be. Suicide flag throws can be made across the pit. Above the pit is a new sniper tower that can only be accessed from the attackers side or the octagon window on green street through a double jump. Many other changes that are less obvious, mostly involving rocks.
I'm pretty sure you have never played on the map, but if you have issues with the spawning maybe you could be more specific. Props for sticking up for your bud. I was pretty harsh.