Grinds my effing gears

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by A R C A S I U S, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. A R C A S I U S

    A R C A S I U S Promethean

    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    2
    I don't know if there is already a thread about this but I don't care. Why in the hell did CA or whoever developed the forge pallet decide to make the Landing pad essentially useless other than for aesthetic use? The damn thing has grooves on it that jut out and destroy smooth running gameplay when you walk over it so you can't make a decent flowing map with it.
    Also, why does the back side of all the bridge pieces have that annoying indentation that makes it impossible to use for flooring? Like why would they even bother redesigning that ****??? Just leave it flat exactly like it was in reach. It just makes me so angry that when I run out of flat pieces, I'm reduced to going into "Decorative" :mad: Dont even get me started on the bunker round that have that stupid jutting pipe in the middle, what freaking purpose does it serve?????????????

    rant over.
     
    #1 A R C A S I U S, Oct 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2013
    theSpinCycle and a Chunk like this.
  2. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    100
    I think this is something all forgers can relate to. The facepalm and "what were they thinking?"....

    Anyways, I've found the bottoms of bridge pieces and landing pads to be pretty good for walls since they're mostly solid brown. :)
     
    DavidJCobb likes this.
  3. Fauch

    Fauch Ancient
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    2
    so it's the new rant thread?

    I've just began working on forge islands, and wtf? are islands inclined? I made a wall out of 2x2 flats (with 90° rotation). on one side of the wall they sink into the ground, on the other side, they are a few cms above it...
     
  4. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    100
    Yup. They're not flat. They're not circular, either... :(
     
  5. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
    Forge Critic Wiki Contributor Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    7,152
    and they don't look natural.
     
  6. A Virtual Duck

    A Virtual Duck Promethean

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    I especially hate how colisseum walls have you floating 100m above them in gameplay when walking on them. Sucks.
     
  7. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
    Forge Critic Wiki Contributor Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    7,152
    I'm sure everyone has already seen this, but it's the perfect thread for it...
     
  8. Fauch

    Fauch Ancient
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    2
    for some reasons, sometimes coliseum walls get magnetized to any object, except other coliseum walls...
     
  9. A R C A S I U S

    A R C A S I U S Promethean

    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    2
    I watched this so many times when it came out never gets old haha
     
  10. Chronmeister

    Chronmeister Blockhead
    Forge Critic Senior Member

    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    2,155
    Over opinionated forgers that are obsessed with their own little click grind my gears
     
    Noooooch likes this.
  11. A Virtual Duck

    A Virtual Duck Promethean

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Obnoxious arschlochs insulting people over a completely legitimate comment grind my gears.
     
  12. Chronmeister

    Chronmeister Blockhead
    Forge Critic Senior Member

    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    2,155
    Hmmm. What comment are you referring to? I take feedback seriously when I can see that people are actually trying to be helpful. Some people are only interested in making themselves or their friends look good and that is what irritates me. Spending tens of hours on something and then having someone shoot it down without any real explanation of why it wont work is a joke. These are the type of people who are only willing to give feedback and not take it themselves. They have it in their head that they know everything and that they should be the ones controlling what maps get noticed. Maybe you haven't encountered anyone like this yet, but if you stick around long enough, things will become more clear to you. ...Or maybe not
     
  13. DavidJCobb

    DavidJCobb Forerunner
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    18
    Then, hopefully, you'll find my feedback acceptable.

    As the OP stated, the various grooves, ridges, and other hitbox clutter that Certain Affinity added to many items in the Forge palette make these pieces less versatile, by adding obstacles that prevent their use as flooring or, in some cases, ramps. The phenomenon isn't isolated to the pieces that the OP called out, either; even the once-venerable Brace, Large had a large extruded panel added to its sloped surface, making that surface worthless as a ramp. These are changes that Certain Affinity seem to have made solely for aesthetic purposes, and they interfere with actual mapmaking.

    Certain Affinity wasn't even successful in their pursuit of aesthetics. The entire palette is now covered in useless clutter that interferes with cohesion and creates obstacles to Forging. We have to avoid cutting off vents and panels when merging, for example, and some pieces can't even be merged at all and still look good, because Certain Affinity added visible interiors beyond glass outer surfaces. It is far more difficult to create imaginative or "custom" structures because of all the random doodads that are utterly beyond our control -- we can't rely on using shapes alone to convey meaning anymore, because the cluttered texturing actively contradicts that -- and even when we can create something coherent, it's still not as easy on the eyes. It should be easier than ever to create good-looking maps; instead, it's harder (ignoring the lighting improvement).

    Ultimately, Certain Affinity butchered the palette in their failed pursuit of aesthetics. I'm sure that Certain Affinity had the best of intentions, and because of that I hate to be so harsh, but I'd be committing a lie by omission if I phrased that any less harshly.

    Now, how can they fix this? They have a few options.

    1. For all Structure-category Forge objects, scrap the Halo 4-era hitboxes in favor of the Reach-era hitboxes. Revert any corresponding alterations to the shapes of objects. This will solve the issues and many of the bugs that the Halo 4 changes caused, making pieces more versatile.

    2a. Revert all Structure-category Forge objects to mostly-smooth textures akin to those seen on Forge World. Though some players will complain about dull maps, dull is better than messy. Forgers will be able to do more with a more cohesive palette (though we'll still need canvases that are actually good).

    2b. OR revert all Structure-category Forge objects to mostly-smooth textures akin to those seen on Forge World, but allow us to add more detail in a controlled fashion. Allow us to place grates, vents, and miscellaneous detailing anywhere on any piece (within reason), similar to stickers in Soul Calibur V's character creation. Allow us to modify the color palettes on all pieces, preferably with RGB sliders -- there shouldn't be a single surface that we cannot recolor, and if possible, pieces should be constrained to a 3-color scheme for convenience and possibly ease of development.
     
    #13 DavidJCobb, Oct 11, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2013
  14. Maximus IL

    Maximus IL TCOJ

    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    17
    Yah, the textures should all be like decals. There should be a couple of base texture choices - so sandstone, metal, paint or something like that - and all of the stripes, grates, etc., should be decals we can select and position as necessary. And for the love of all that is good and holy, we need square edges. Not edges with cutouts, rounds, protrusions, and other crap. Maybe have the complex edges available as an option, but allow a default square edge. And for the colors, I've been asking for an RGB slider (or at least a luminosity / hue slider) since I opened H4 Forge.

    Lastly, there should be no reason why we could not make arbitrarily sized rectangular blocks just like we specify kill zones, and adding in the ability to make cylindrical pieces (# vertices, inner diameter, outer diameter, arc, height) would be a simple upgrade from that. And windows, too. We should be able to size windows (just plain glass) the same way so that we can fit them into whatever gap we want.
     
  15. theSpinCycle

    theSpinCycle Halo Reach Era
    Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    100
    I've asked a few knowledgable people about this before. What I've heard is that Havok (the physics engine used by Forge) can scale textures but won't scale the object's physics (player interaction) with it. As a result, each arbitrarily sized block would have to be its own "object." As for killzones, I'm not really sure why they scale, but if I had to guess, I'd say it has something to do either with the fact that the killzone doesn't block player movement or that it doesn't have a texture. Perhaps both.

    Hopefully we can get something new with the Xbox One.
     

Share This Page