News New Age Of Forge Hub

Loved your response Maximus. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not writing off explicit incentives entirely. They need to be intimately married to implicit rewards. Explicit rewards need to reinforce the desired attitudes and behaviors that are tied to implicit incentives. In the case of features and getting maps into MM, those rewards are perfectly acceptable. Although we can't control the reason why a forger wants those rewards or their attitude and behavior in striving towards those goals, hopefully we can reinforce the bona fide feelings towards each other and the community in general through other means. A forger should want to get their map into MM not because it will bring them fame or recognition, but because they want to provide quality content for the community at large. The competition for these goals is fine and well, so long as it is in good faith. It shouldn't be 'me me me' or 'my map deserves this more than X map', it should be 'may the best map win'.

I do think moving away from titles and such is a good step in the right direction that should help bring this fragmented community together. As Mr Green pointed out in another post, this community was originally founded on friendships and helping every body improve. We need to learn humility and move away from the egotism that's brought us down so low in the past.

 

Cool. I didn't figure you were - but when we try to wax philosophical on forums, there's usually insufficient space to get all the details to come across precisely. Just imagine how much boring crap I would write were space and time unlimited (hm . . . could make a cosmological reference there).

I will add on a couple of things, though. First, while "egotism" is negative, "ego" is fine. I have a big ego, but would not consider myself egotistical (though others may disagree). Ego drives me to try to excel because it bothers me when I publicly do something that is not up to par. However, it does not drive me to tell someone else that what they did sucks in comparison to my work of absolute genius. Maybe that's ego, too . . . because I don't want to look like a jackass. Anyway, ego can be a good thing (and I do know that you never said otherwise).

Second, I did not say, nor mean to imply, that I agree that titles are always bad. There is a point to titles. There are also difficulties in managing them.

A perfectly "flat" - i.e., titleless or statusless - community cannot be maintained because not everyone has equal needs, wants, and abilities. At a basic level, there is a need for cops when people get too far out of line - and withholding an appropriate title ("Staff") is counterproductive, as everyone knows that they do exist and must exist, and hiding who they might be only adds confusion. Likewise, since oVR actually spent money on the site, only the perverse (in my opinion) would object to him having a title that indicates such a status - as he ultimately has purchased the right to do with the site what he will. Hiding that makes little sense given his desire to actively shape the future of the site.

When it comes to other titles, my concerns with them are more pragmatic than principle. If someone contributes a great deal more than others, having a different title can be a useful thing. Since feedback can be conflicting, if a forger needs to decide whether to follow one or the other (but is newer to the community), an earned title that indicates expertise can be useful in deciding which to follow. oVR points out other benefits in his post above. I agree with many of the benefits he outlines - though I do not feel that titles are as big of a motivator as he feels. This is likely due to our personal biases - I personally do not place much value on my own title (awards are different), while oVR may place more on his. There is nothing wrong with either.

The reason "earned" is underlined above is obvious - titles that inappropriately or inaccurately convey an impression of expertise can be very counterproductive. Lots of places mess that part up (most, in fact). They give titles (and they give too many titles) that cannot be properly maintained, resulting in the title not accurately representing the value the holder provides. However, oVR in his post above explicitly states that titles to be given will be contingent upon continued performance. As long as this is maintained, then such titles are both appropriate and useful.

When I was staff on an unrelated forum, we had few titles (2 staff levels - admin and mod - and 2 member levels excluding guests). So it was not perfectly flat. We did keep the list small enough that we were comfortable maintaining it - and I think we were fairly successful at doing so. Most of the recognition came from awards. As fire-and-forget recognition, the only maintenance required was for the contests or criteria themselves, which we would have done regardless of the existence of the awards. That makes them easier, but not necessarily better for all situations.

When we merged with another site which had more levels, we went to 3 member levels (up 1 from our system and down 3 from theirs), as we all felt we had enough staff to maintain that. They had long since recognized they had too many levels, and the merger gave them an ostensible reason for changing it without pissing off too many people.

So I don't think that titles have no place in society, forums, or Forgehub. They are useful. They only become counterproductive when they are given for activities that do not contribute something valuable to the community, when there are too many to properly maintain (which gives the appearance of cronyism), or they are actively given based on cronyism. But if oVR holds to his plan he outlined for properly maintained titles, then I feel they are a useful tool for making this a vibrant place.

With that said, titles, status, and awards are icing on the cake. The community working together as a group of friends - not enemies - with a real desire to help each other rather than a desire to simply acquire titles is a necessary foundation. The base motivation must be what you and Mr. Green describe - else the titles will ultimately have no meaning. Titles only have meaning if people other than the title holder grant them that meaning.

 

I changed that post because I felt I went overboard on the drama a bit. While your quote is very accurate, I will point out that the person who posted the map, when you look at their grammar and replies to the criticism, came across like a child, not an adult. It grieved me that an adult staff member would behave the way he did.

My point was that children seeking recognition, noobies to forge seeking recognition, it isn't wrong, it isn't bad, and to a degree it is sort of cute.

I think it would be black and white in anyone's mind when you compare that to "YOU TOOK MY TITLE AWAY?!?!" from adult staffers.

 

No argument on that score. Plus, you called me cute.

 

This was and has always been my problem with staff on forums. There is nothing more demoralizing than when someone sits on a rank doing nothing with when someone more suitable could fill those shoes. That is why I relinquished myself from the position. I didn't want to become the very thing I hate. And when someone as devoted and deserving as Pac fills your shoes, it feels good.

 

There have been too many "New age of forgehub"s over the past couple of weeks. Come on guys another forum update. Make up your mind.