Artifact (updated) ARTIFACT Created by Maximus IL Map Description Layout: Outdoor / indoor map with an asymmetric outer perimeter and symmetric building interior. Game Types: 6 - 10-person FFA, infantry-style BTB, CTF, multi-team slayer, SWAT and 4v4 Slayer games. Ordnance / Weapons: (Note: All ordnance / weapon spawns are static.) Ordnance: 1 Sniper, 1 Railgun, 1 Sword, 1 Speed Boost, 1 Overshield. Weapons: 2 BR, 2 DMR, 2 Carbine, 2 LR, various grenades (8 frag, 4 pulse, 4 sticky). Vehicles: None. Comments: The map is larger than most of the 4v4 maps (Complex excluded), but less segmented due to the building having 8 entrances. It will play larger than most 4v4 maps, but not as large as Complex. It is probably best suited for an 8-player FFA, which is cramped on many of the 4v4 maps, and will have fewer spawning-in-harm's-way issues for FFAs. BTB should also be well-supported by the map size without the open-spawning issues on Complex and lack of multiple viable power positions on Settler. SWAT on this map plays similarly to Complex SWAT, but unlike Complex, there are fewer cross-map opportunities and the BR is a viable loadout choice. Maps were updated on 16 Aug. Map Link ARTIFACT SCREENSHOTS: Overhead - Red Base at 12 O'Clock (top) and Blue Base at 6 O'Clock (bottom) ***UPDATED*** Perimeter - Atop Red Base, looking clockwise toward Blue Base ***UPDATED*** Perimeter - Approximately the 3 O'Clock position looking clockwise ***UPDATED*** Perimeter - Outside of Blue Base looking clockwise ***UPDATED*** Perimeter - Above Yellow Bridge at the 9 O'Clock position looking clockwise ***UPDATED*** Building - Top mid ***UPDATED*** Building - First floor ***UPDATED*** Additional Player-View Screenshots: Spoiler
FYI: Some changes that will be made based on SilentA98 & A Virtual Duck feedback (but, if you are willing, please go ahead and give comments on this version, as I can incorporate those as well): 1. The standard 3-room building and round bunker on the perimeter will be removed and replaced with forged structures that are less cramped and fit the map better. 2. Red base and blue base will be reworked to make them more tactically interesting. 3. Asymmetric power weapon spawns will be made symmetric. 4. The all-you-can-eat loadout weapons buffet in the basement will be replaced with a more limited menu. 5. A Virtual Duck managed to get stuck in the basement grav lifts, so that will be fixed. Also, A Virtual Duck mentioned that this might be suitable for an infantry BTB map (to which I agree), so the mongooses will stay.
Okay . . . changes from Silent and Duck have been incorporated. There are now 2 versions of the map - a 4v4 and a BTB version. Links and some of the images updated in the original post.
Updated. The building interior was completely reforged based on feedback from TCOJ. While I really liked the basement area aesthetically, because the only way to get into it is either (a) falling; or, (b) teleporters, it disrupted flow and accidentally falling into it was annoying and disorienting. So the entire basement area has been blocked off. Once that was done, there was no need for teleporters, so those have been removed. The interior upper-level was deleted and then redone to have 4 hard access points rather than 2 hard + 2 teleporters and the cramped gravity lifts were made more spacious. On the exterior, the rocks were better incorporated into the existing landscape and smoothed out once I figured out how the invisible surfaces worked. Nades seem to bounce fairly predictably now, even if the surface looks rough. The corral was removed since all it accomplished was to ensure that area would never be visited by anyone. It was replaced with platforms (tunnels, long) that provide a minor power position outside of Red Base that was previously lacking. The approach to both bases can now be adequately (I think) covered to better support CTF. So while the map is significantly improved, I do not know if the improvements are enough to make it fun to play on for anyone else (I like it, but I created it, so that goes without saying). Any and all feedback would be much appreciated! And a big thanks to the TCOJ guys for taking the time to play on the previous version.
Playtested in TCOJ Tuesday Night Testing Lobby on 7/30/13 We played both a FFA and Team Slayer on this last night, the improvements were drastic. Blocking off the lower level of the map made the layout quickly understandable, and just flow better overall. The new center area is fun to fight over and hard to resist running into curtain death to get back into the battle. The center area offers some nice CQC and outside gives a nice change of pace with long sight lines. Enjoyed it, looking forward to playing it more.
We played two games on here last night and this map is definitely shaping up. Removing that bottom layer was a step in the right direction as it broke the map as it was, and one of the first things one noticed on the first playthrough was difficulty in discerning which level your enemy was on- above or below you. Taking time to try and understand where they were was frustrating so i am glad you sorted that. Secondly i have never played (or at least very very rarely played) a map made in the building/base on Impact. People just don't do it. So you are commended for using this space with its prefab structure- but some might consider it lazy instead of innovative. You sculpted the surroundings well and the sniper was in a good risk vs reward spot. However i suggest looking at creating your own playspace on this or another canvas, and trying steer away from prefab buildings/ scenery as you can really let your imagination run wild...
I'm glad it was better. While the "I'm trying to get out but I don't know how" and "dammit I fell down here again" comments the first night were kind of funny, they spelled the death of the basement. I'm glad that removing it helped. I'm still making small adjustments (amazing how many little things you find when you have more players on it) and would not mind playing it again if your lobby has space in the future. Also, as it supports CTF, I wouldn't mind trying a full party CTF game on it. My hope is that the center area is too dangerous, forcing the flag to travel around the perimeter and leaving the center route for attacking / repositioning, such that using the whole map is necessary. I'd also be curious to see how the spawns work. It's supposed to prevent spawning in the center and perimeter areas that are too far from the bases.
I agree. I have mental sketches of two maps that I'm going to try and build on Erosion, which only use the existing canvas as distant background. The spaces themselves will be forged. The reason I started with the Impact building was that the aesthetics of that building I really, really like. The very first time I started up forge and went to Impact, I wanted to be able to play in there. It's really the reason I started forging because I couldn't find any other good maps that utilize it. While I've seen some Flood ones that look good for that purpose, I don't really enjoy Flood. So the building was the reason I even tried forge . . . which also means it's the reason I even tried customs. In doing it, though, I realized toward the end that it's actually very challenging to make an existing structure the centerpiece of a map. The structure was not designed with forge in mind (except for a few random pieces, like the floor cap). Rectangular pieces are not happy matches with round structures, and the thin, clear floor presents quite a few issues, as you can't simply bury unused portions of pieces in the ground. Buried pieces can still be seen, so it complicates adding vertical features. So unless the existing space is really unique - and that Impact building is the only part of any of the canvases that fits the bill, IMO - I think it's easier to achieve a good finished product by doing exactly as you suggest: forging the space from scratch. I will try to improve it further, as I noted some things from the lobby that I didn't like. And then it's off to forging brand-new spaces!
No i agree, that building is pretty beautiful, but sadly many thing that the developers put on the disc for us sacrificed playability for coolness/ looks, so its likely an unworthy trouble trying to mould that one into something competitive. When I say competitive, I mean; Defined areas of a map that can be controlled by good teamwork, but not locked down simply with a power weapon or two Smooth and interesting flow. Players must be able to move in a fluid and intuitive manner around the map without unexpected humps, hops or drops Weapon placement, guns and other things must be placed in high contrast to their surroundings so they can be seen easily, its awful when players can't find your guns and they think the maps empty Aesthetics, players need to enjoy running around your map cos it's pretty and cos it plays well. Great visuals also help players to orient themselves when they are spawning and moving around SPAWNING. Many game modes require spawn zones to function properly, some require none, respectively static spawning and dynamic spawning. Static spawning will lock you into your own zone in CTF, dynamic spawning will allow you to spawn as close to your safe buddies as possible. There are a million guides and experts on this very website, that can help one to achieve the spawning you need for your map. At it's simplest, you should respawn safely, and able to quickly understand your surroundings and situation. Objective placement such as flags, capture plates and hills need careful consideration to allow them to be attacked and defended fairly. If a hill inside a room can be held simply with a shotgun or scattershot, allowing whichever team got there first to completely own it for the hill duration, then it's busted. Also if a map is so tightly enclosed that it's impossible to stop a flag carrier, or impossible to get anywhere with a flag 'cos it's too open, then that can wreck your map too. Trust me, this is a very very simplified list of things that add to a maps competitiveness, and I am no expert by a long shot. And I am not aiming this list at you in any way, I just got on a typing spree so i thought I would commit my thoughts to the internet.
Even if that we're directed to me, that is fine. I only have a vague understanding of what makes maps competitive outside of the bare basics. Doing this one helped emphasize the point that pretty =/= good play. I really liked that basement, but it would take a much better forger than me to make it playable - and it is probably not worth the effort.
Hectic good or hectic bad? If it's too much, I might have to increase the percentage of space the walls occupy around the sword spawn to limit LOS/movement a bit more. That is eminently doable. I also think I have the concussion rifle and railgun in the wrong spots. They should be swapped. The railgun should be up top to balance the desirability of the overshield and the concussion rifle should be down by the green bridges, so you have a counter to the sword if you decide to go around the perimeter rather than charge the middle. As it stands right now, anyone going up top is going there primarily for the OS . . . which means that whoever gets it has a reasonable chance to get the concussion rifle as well. But if I put the railgun up there, there's a better chance of having people fight it out up top after grabbing the drops, rather than simply grabbing the OS and dropping down to the first level.
Okay. I will noodle on how to slow down the pace in the center. Reducing the open perimeter on the sword spawn should help. Swapping the ordnance locations might help a tad, too. I'm wondering if I need any ordnance in the building at all, though (excepting the sword). It's a natural focal point, so there's no need to draw players in. They will go there anyway. Perhaps all of the ordnance except the sword should be outside.
Played this TCOJ lobby 6/8/13. 4v4 slayer was actually very fun. It seemed like the other team constanly had power weapons and the beginning few minutes was just me getting crushed by everyone, however they were likely pulling ordnance quite often. It plays well for how it's designed; the donut outside and the complex middle area lead well into one another but that's a very simple walk-in-walk-out transition and needs to be a little more clever to encourage creative play from your testers. So a majority of the fights were people inside shooting out, and vice versa; The team taking the advantage could push forward into the central base and flood out the defenders. Also I don't see the pont in having a mongoose, as it's purely a transportation vehicle and fairly useless in slayer gametypes.
Thanks, Juanez. I think the concussion rifle is going to disappear, so I'll just stick with the sword, sniper, and railgun. The bridges and second-floor platforms have been modified a bit, but I've not yet done anything with the ground floor entrances. I'll think on that. And I'll use a different gametype next time. The standard Infinity settings put way too many power weapons on maps. The mongooses . . . well, they were only there originally for my kids (they're both girls under 10). I used them to test if you can get stuck in areas. So I'd load up the game in a custom and they'd just wander around. They're not interested in shooting things - they just like exploring - so they'd go places that wouldn't occur to me to try. I put the mongooses there because they like bouncing around in them. Virtual Duck thought they'd be a good idea for infantry BTB, but even there I don't think they'll get used much at all. I'll just keep a local version with the mongooses, but the version we play in the future won't have them.
Okay . . . I think I managed something that will prevent the outside-in shooting rampages and give the second level some more meaning. Fileshare updated with V5.0.
It appears as if I over-compensated for the lower level and made the upper level too desirable since it is very campable now. There were also comments about clutter (especially perimeter green), inside the building, and perhaps also at perimeter yellow. I will work on these things and have a final version for next week. One question: Did the new location for the overshield and replacing the concussion rifle with the speed boost work? I personally didn't notice. I spent a lot of time watching the perimeter play, and it was unexpectedly disappointing out there.
Okies . . . I removed the clutter from the perimeter. Green now has a nice open combat space between the two bridges, with 4 escape routes. In yellow, one of the cranes was removed and the long tunnels spaced better to prevent squishing that whole area between the rocks. That should work much better than on Tuesday night - when, for the first time, the perimeter saw a decent amount of action. There was simply too much crap on the ground in Green when 3 or 4 players started fighting there. Respawn points in yellow and green were reworked to prevent having rocks at your feet (but not visible on screen) from blocking forward movement (there were 4 similar points). On the interior, I changed a bit on the upper level to give some direct lines-of-sight for outside snipers to support an assault on top mid by lowering the whole top mid a bit. The big crates on the first floor were replaced with smaller crates. Some LOS blockage is necessary - else you can cover all building entrances with 2 guys at top mid and 1 guy at each of the side entrances on the ground level. The small crates work just as well for that as the big ones, but without cramping the combat space. I would like to give this a last spin with TCOJ next Tuesday if I can make it and there is room, but I think I am going to call the map complete. All of the feedback I received was much appreciated, and I hope I was able to use it to make the map better. I would like to release the map at this point and reserve my Forge energy for new projects. Thanks again, everyone!