Novus

It all depends upon how the map is designed, to be honest. If you have a map with a lot of overlapping levels then it's okay to have spawns on the upper levels. Countdown is probably the best example of this that comes to mind off the top of my head. The overlap makes it so that the upper level doesn't have as many lines of sight into the lower levels.
With a map like this, where essentially all the upper level areas have good lines of sight into lower level areas, and are therefore all basically power positions, then it's not a good idea to spawn people there. So, the decision is not completely based upon elevation. You also have to factor in other things. It boils down to whether or not the area is a power position. You don't want people respawning in power positions.

 

Thanks for including me in the TCOJ. I am not comfortable enough with my map-making skills to give any grand advice, so I will limit it to this: (1) I had fun on the map; and, (2) there are a few spots where you can get stuck on the ground level. Twice I tried backing into the stone tunnel and got hung up on something, and there are a few ramps that the tall side protrudes out where you can get hung up. Most of them are small misalignments. Someone mentioned them in-game, but I forget who. Sorry . . . still learning who is who.

 

This looks way different both aesthetically and functionally, and all for the better I think.
I have to commend you on your willingness to consider everyone's feedback. I know from personal experience that it's sometimes hard to listen to people tell you what's wrong with your map. I've also learned that most of the time those people were right. When I got to the point that I really wanted to hear what everyone thought was wrong with my maps, that's when I started actually making good maps. I think that's where you're at right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this map turns out when it's all said and done, and also very much looking forward to your future projects.

 

Well firstly, it looked very different and a lot cleaner i tbought. Most elements were recognisable but overall it was a smoother build and that meant better movement, more intuitive. The areas that interest me the most are: the rock cave area which is dangerous to try and hold but gives a fair bit of cover from the rest of the map, and the big double ramp on the opposite side- that is very nicely made and a real fun spot to fight over. Also framerate is better now, but your aussie host can often be a bit laggy ;-)

What criticisms do i have? I don't think i have any for slayer- it works very fluidly with teams working together to hold positions. Spawns seemed good too. I would like to run some games of extraction and KOTH on this new version.

 

I concur. I concentrated my efforts on testing them. Or that's my story, at least.

Thanks for letting us play on it, Zandril.

 

Playtested in TCOJ Tuesday Night Testing Lobby on 7/30/13

We played Slayer on this last night, this was my first time playing Novus. So I was blissfully unaware of any changes made, but I did enjoy the overall flow of the map. I found it scaled well for a 4v4, the game was paced well. Players have a chance to orientate themselves before being forced into a conflict, yet was usually only a few steps away from being in the action. Good work, enjoyed it.

 

If you are awake we want you.







Every. Fricken. Tuesday.

 

Novus has become a great map and it plays a great game of Halo, but most of all you deserve to be commended for the hard work you have put in after taking evryone's comments and criticisms into account. Not this many maps get edited and re-edited so they can become the very beat they can be, and its unusual to meet a map author who can take such a big step back from his map and say "tell me how to fix this". I have a lot to learn from your attitude and many others could also take a leaf from your book and become better map authors in the process.
Here's to you.

 

Hey Zandril. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this...

First off, you're a boss for working this hard on a map and taking so much feedback into account. But Juanez already beat me to that compliment so whatever, you know this already.

Anyway, you've done a great job cleaning the map up from previous versions but it still feels like an unorganized map because the map flow doesn't PEAK anywhere. Many maps highlight a small amount of power positions (1-3ish) that the rest of the map builds up to and then has positions that counter those spots somehow. I don't feel like Novus has any power positions, just random bridges and corners.

Personally, I'm all about minimalism. I'd rather see a small amount of interesting playspaces than a bunch of mediocre ones. Many maps nowadays are very simple in design and function, but are still creative and interesting. Try to find ways to incorporate different engagement scenarios, ie. CQC, platform to platform, jumping through windows, walking down a ramp to open a sightline on a power position, through a tunnel etc. Just make sure to keep it minimal.

Overall, I just feel like it's too erratic and unorganized. It's great that you have persisted this far with Novus, but don't be afraid to take what you did here and apply it to a new project.

 

After walking through the map, this is exactly what I felt. Being on the map and walking around made me feel.. a little directionless? I'm not too sure how to describe it.

On top of that, there are several paths that don't seem to have a purpose and add to the "directionless" feel (Cave area was where I first noticed this).

The current version looks a lot better than the older one (I remember red being humongous, the new red is definitely better), but it still has that feeling..

Sorry for the vagueness. I'm still not too sure exactly how to put what I felt into words.

 

When we played extraction last night I'm not sure if anybody said this but C & D are way to close, at one point in the game I defended both from the hallway between

 

Some more good improvements in this version. That means I'm going to become more picky.
We're getting into territory that's mostly subjective, though, so keep that in mind.

Aesthetics:
One of the clearest signs that there was a lot of forethought and planning put into a map is that the piece usage is consistent and clean, and that the pieces line up and look natural. This map has improved aesthetically, but is still very rough looking. I could point out some particular areas:
- On the connection that goes from gold to green underneath the curved bridge between top red and top middle, the right side is very rough, and there are extra pieces buried in there.
- The curved bridge at top middle heading from the receiver node towards top gold has the block doubled up for no apparent reason.
- The new connection from bottom gold to bottom mid, the walling on the one side is very messy.
- Etc, etc.
The only way to really clean up the map is to basically rebuild it from scratch, unfortunately.

Weapons:
- Sniper and Sticky Detonator spawn at exactly the same time, and are very close to each other, making it very likely that one team with obtain possession of both power weapons.
- I know I said this before, but a 4 minute respawn time on Rockets is too long.
- Your fastest spawning power weapon is at 3 minutes. 3 Minutes should be the spawn time on your slowest spawning weapon (Rockets in this case) and should be complemented by one or two other power weapons that can spawn at 60, 90, 120, or 150 seconds.

Flow:
In my opinion, this is the main thing holding Novus back from being a great map. I haven't addressed this until now because I honestly feel like it's not something that can be fixed without a complete rebuild/redesign of the map, and most of my feedback has been aimed at improving your overall forging rather than focusing on improving this particular map. I don't really have the time to do an in-depth breakdown of where you have flow issues and why, so this is going to be pretty vague. The main problem with the map is that there are just way too many movement options. This makes predicting player movement almost impossible, and results in extremely erratic gameplay. I realize that erratic gameplay can be very enjoyable when playing the game casually, so if you're not intending this map for hardcore competitive play then it's not really a problem.
Having said that, in order for the map to play well at high levels of competition:
- The movement options would need to be severely restricted.
- A lot of the connections and lines of sight are still unnatural/unintuitive feeling, and would need to be rethought.
- The map would need to be scaled down quite a bit. The scaling within each area is decent, but the map overall is just too large.

 

I mean fewer paths, yes, but blocking off existing paths won't work well because of the size of the map. The map would need to be streamlined both in size and in the number of connections. Doing only one or the other would not be sufficient, which is why I believe it would have to be completely rebuilt.
As far as the unnatural connections/sightlines, perhaps I can give you some specific examples when I have access to my xbox again. One that you've already eliminated was the bridge leading from top blue to top gold. It felt forced and unnecessary. There were many other areas that gave me that same feeling. Like I said, I'll give you some more concrete examples when I can.

 

I'm suggesting that in order for the map to be top notch aesthetically, you need to make sure your pieces fit together without having some protrude through others. You've used a lot of pieces purely in an effort to cover up other pieces, and it affects the overall appearance of the map.

All of the aspects I've addressed in my feedback to you are interconnected, which means you can't address each aspect separately. To end up with a map that excels in all areas, there needs to be a cohesive plan ahead of time. You can make a map that plays good and looks good without having much of a plan in mind, but I don't think I have ever seen a really great map that has been built that way. Novus has been reworked so many times that it's almost like a puzzle where some pieces are forced to fit into spaces they weren't intended to fit. It's better than the puzzle you started with, but everything doesn't fit together as smoothly as it could.

If you're asking what I would do to fix the issues I've mentioned, I would personally rebuild the map completely from scratch. However, I wouldn't rebuild it with exactly the same design. I would reduce the size beginning with the middle, which is too elongated. The reduced overall size would enable me to eliminate a lot of unnecessary sections and connections. With a consolidated layout and fewer connections, it becomes much easier to create a clean looking map. I would also make sure I had the layout of the map fairly accurately planned out ahead of time. Knowing where my connections are going to be ahead of time would allow me to build it so that the pieces fit 'naturally', and I would end up with a puzzle that looks more like a picture than a puzzle.