That outside entrance to the map looks really nice. I wish 343 left the grey objects in Forge Island. Your map doesn't look as nice on the inside because it's all white. It's nearly impossible to texture and add color variation on Forge Island!
You should have read previous posts on this thread before posting that. People already pointed that out to him and he took it VERY negatively. This thread was left abandoned because the map maker took most feedback as "bashing" by others.
Thanks for your feedback man! Yeah, I agree the lighting in the shade is less than desirable on Forge Island. That's the main reason I recommended lowering one's brightness level by 1 or 2 notches. I find this helps the interior more than anything and helps the lighting accents stand out. You also see evidence of this on the recently started Finite thread. -O
So I know this thread was abandoned, but I gotta say it has potential. Maybe it's not the most balanced layout (don't come at me tooth and claw with that remark, it's simply an observation) but I think it can be made into a balanced layout. To start, I'll start with the positive. The Aesthetics are amazing. You had many users lined up and waiting from one screenshot. In my small time on Forge Hub I have yet to see that happen. That's because it was a unique, intriguing design that wasn't overplayed but still looked really nice. The aesthetics are astounding, there is not doubt about that. However, many users here have shown a distaste for the layout. One of the main problems, as pointed out by Haunted Army, was the shield doors. Now, I'm going to give an example of why people dislike these things. Lets think back to Halo 3, and one map in particular. Snowbound. People despised those shield doors, and for a decent reason. They promoted a very cheap strategy, and while it might not be a detriment on your map (I do not know as I have not played a match on it) past experience shows us that shield doors aren't very liked. Another example would be Epitaph, also from Halo 3. Both of these maps had their shield doors removed at later dates because the community expressed a great deal of dislike for them. Another problem put forward is the lack of cover. Now, as I have not played on the map I cannot judge how this would affect gameplay, but I can work off of previous experience and make the comment that it will likely have a negative effect on the outcome. The map might play good without cover, but there is a possibility that it would play better WITH cover. So here is my proposal: Make a second copy of the map, and make the changes that have been previously suggested through feedback. If you would like help on cover and spawning, I would be more than willing to assist (as I like the aesthetics and idea of the map.) in setting it up. Play a few matches on it and see if you like it. Ask the other players their opinions and see if they like it, or if there are any changes that would be necessary. Then have them run a match on the first version of the map and ask which version they like more, and for what reason(s). If you can make a map, with the given suggestions that both you and they are happy with, then you have succeeded. But you have to be willing to go with the flow and make a few changes before coming on to a position or map that you like. Many of the maps you see around here on forgehub have gone through many, many different phases and designs. Take Blacksite/Ender for example. I would rate that as one of the best forge maps I've seen implemented into the game, if not the best. It's aesthetically beautiful but doesn't sacrifice gameplay. It went through 3-4 official version before settling on the current one, and even then it is still being changed and worked with. No map is perfect from the start, but it can be worked with and edited and refined, if the map maker is willing to do it. I'd really like to see what this map has to offer, as it seems a very well crafted map. Would you be willing to try this? To create a duplicate and work from there? Sorry for starting this thread back up if you didn't want to see it, but this map has decent potential and I'd really like to see what you can do with it if you're willing to try. EDIT: Also, sorry for the block of text. I know it's going to be a pain to read but Forge Hub doesn't allow me to use the enter button for whatever reason (problem with the site itself). EDIT 2: Sorry this was so poorly written (I overused many words and repeated phrases far to quickly), but I hope you get what I'm trying to say even if it was poorly conveyed. Anyway, Cheers!
I'm cool with the feedback. I hear you on the shield doors. I implemented them at first cause, they look cool. Then, as I'm sure I've said, came to appreciate them being there. They serve as a way to quickly survey the situation on the inside before entering. Since, there isn't cover in the main halls. However, there is cover around the entirety of the exterior, lower level of the structure, and the middle of the upper level. There are also several hiding spots on the upper level that aren't apparent at 1st glance. If I deleted the shield doors I could free up 1000k on the budget. I could add some cover in the main halls. I'm just not sure I want cover in the main halls. I think it plays like I want it to. The lack of cover there makes it less of a power position. I think it's a case of it appearing dysfunctional on the surface due to pre-existing ideologies. But, then, these things begin to cancel each other out.. Panopticon might not fit the mold of every other map and that's OK with me. But, I don't think anything is unbalanced. If anything, it's too balanced. One thing I did do that isn't reflected on the version that's on my file share is moved the position of one of the snipers outside. I had both snipers closer to blue so, I moved one of them closer to red to balance that out. That recently added Forge Island Community Playlist has some well put together maps but, they all seem to play exactly the same to me. I can understand why 343 would ship a game with maps like that (to appease the masses) but, in Forge we can literally create anything we want (for the most part) so, why must we keep mimicking what's already been done gameplay-wise? TO me there is more reason to play a map that is radically different than one that plays like all the rest only with a less interesting look to it. (Comparing forge maps to 343 designed maps) One thing I have been doing is making other maps. I think I'm going to end up with a Panopticon-Themed Map Pack before long. I'm making other maps with the same aesthetic quality as Panopticon. But, they are all going to sport different layouts etc. What I've learned since posting this map and several playtests later is: It works better with smaller lobbies and looks better with your brightness set on 2. -O
You might not think it's unbalanced, but many community members who you had lined up and waiting for the release of the map did express concern. I'm not saying bend over to their will, but that many forgers expressing concern generally means you ought to check it out and play around with it a little. I get where you're coming from on the shield doors, they do look very nice, but the question is how do they affect gameplay? Again, not having a game on there I wouldn't know, but I'm willing to bet it could bring a few negatives up during the game. I wouldn't say Onyx and Confined play the same. Rather, they play radically different. Onyx is a Symmetrical Midship styled base to base map, although it's a bit too similar to Simplex for my liking. Confined on the other hand is a Narrows re-imagining, and as such the two maps have entirely different play-styles. Please, work with me on this. If you come to the conclusion that you absolutely hate the way a new version plays, then feel free to change it back, but I think you're missing out on a great opportunity here. If you really, really do not like the idea of creating a new map from the same idea (which wouldn't entirely change how the map itself plays, nor its unique design), would you allow me the opportunity to do so? I wouldn't be publishing the map or anything, simply adding things to your map and possibly a few rebalances where I see fit, and then run it through with you to see what you think. It's a great map, it'd be such a shame to see it go to waste. Thanks either way. -Silent
I don't think anything is a waste. If anything it's but a taste of things to come. But, if you want to change the map to make it play more like everything else. Sure, I'm curious but, know that isn't like an oversight on my part more than it's intentional design. I played several games on here, and watched several videos. Everything from 1v1s to 8v8s. I know how this map plays more than anyone on planet Earth. But, yeah, download it, rename it, do whatever you want to it. However, It would be beneficial to play on it 1st as-is with a smallish lobby if possible. I normally run with the FNC crew on Fridays but, this Friday I'm going to be out of town. But, you know, this way you can see first hand how it plays before you start trying to "fix" it. Try not to let these biases steer you too much tho. Like, I said, I'm more attracted to stuff that's different. (Cause, that's the stuff that stands out) I think that applies both to design and game-play mechanics. On the playlist stuff.. the only map I didn't get to play out of the new bunch was Confined so, I can't speak to that one. But, all the others (whether symmetrical or not) played/felt the same to me. All bi-level areas for the most part. I like Ender a lot but, only for SWAT.. seems too random for anything else. And yeah Onyx is essentially a Mid-ship remake and I can totally dig that. Not a fan of his use of trees but, otherwise it's a cool well-made map. I know I've said this before but, try Panopticon with your brightness setting on 2. This helps the interior to look more as it was intended to look. The forge island palette is a little drab in the shade. It should really be darker when you are blocking out the only light source but, whatever. -O
Well, I didn't mean a waste in that sense, but many people expressing distaste for a few things does show a possibility that it isn't reaching it's full potential, and I think that if the map can be made into something more people like, it could be really fantastic (Like I said, you had people lined up and waiting which proves how good the aesthetics were). I'll definitely play a few games on it before I come to any conclusions on what might need to be changed (if anything at all) and I'll definitely get back to you on that. Believe me, I don't want it to play like the other maps by any stretch of the imagination. The goal of many forgers is to make a unique map, that's how they get noticed, but I've a feeling the map isn't entirely balanced and could be improved without jeopardizing the unique aesthetics the map provides.I'll remain as unbiased as a physically can, rest assured on that part. I'd also love to get a game on here with you at some point, even if it's just a 1v1 to get a good feeling for the map before I even think about changing things. Testing is a massive part of map building, and I wouldn't change anything if I didn't feel it was a detriment to gameplay. I definitely think (from what I've seen) yours looks different than the others, and probable plays different as well. But yeah, when I test I'll do so on 2 to get a better feeling for the map.
Cool man, yeah I'm down to play on it with you for the preliminary testing, and of course after you've made your changes too. 1v1 or I could probably get a couple of friends to help to have a bit more players. 1v1 definitely works but, maybe try to get a 2v2, or 2v2v2 going etc,. -O