Refuse BETA & Simple design vs replay value question

Discussion in 'WIP - Works In Progress' started by gaagaa1829, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. gaagaa1829

    gaagaa1829 Promethean

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    So this is my second map, and I feel like I am struggling to balance simplicity with replay value. It's a small map that supports Infinity Slayer, CTF, & Oddball. I doubt you would want more than 4v4, and currently there are only ordinance drops for weapons. Has a trash/sewage plant theme...
    Gamertag - Gaagaa1829

    [​IMG]
    Top view

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    Side view of blue side

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    Center from Red - Tall Tower

    Weapons:
    BR x 2
    AR & Suppressor
    Saw & Needler
    Railgun on center platform

    I got a couple replies to my first map - http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-4-standard-maps/143721-lagoon-sunrise.html#post1574618
    saying it might be too complicated. I reviewed it and really couldn't figure out a way to simplify it. Then I made this map over the weekend, which is simple, but I fear would get old quickly. Am I just missing the proper balance with both of these? Any tips or feedback on either map would be great.
     
  2. ExTerrestr1al

    ExTerrestr1al Promethean
    Senior Member

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    complexity doesn't necessarily add replay value, but perhaps a little larger would be good. from the pics it seems like with sprint a few people playing together might find it hard to find a time they are not being shot at. if it were slightly larger, not necessarily more complex, but maybe a little, it could be promising.

    overall it looks remeniscent of a Halo 2 map which is good ;)
     
  3. pyro

    pyro The Joker
    Senior Member

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    Replay value is a fancy way of saying if the may was enjoyable that knowledgeable people use to sound intelligent. I'm not sure why would be balancing fun and simplicity. No one is going to care if your map is too complicated if it's fun. Now on to a quick forge lesson...

    When someone says a map is too complicated they can mean anything from poor weapon placement, too many jumps, illogical connections of paths, lack of open spaces, poor orientation, or any number of other things. In your case it seems they were referring to the high use of catwalks with elevation change and lack of open spaces. The sort of maps you build are based almost entirely on catwalks and platforms or in your case just on catwalks. These maps' quality is highly dependent on a good balance on catwalks and platforms because the fighting occurs primarily between a platform and catwalk. When people confront on catwalks there is generally nowhere to hide or strafe so the battles are boring and repetitive. Battles between platforms create interesting standoffs but those also become repetitive especially as people run out of grenades. The primary battles are between one team attempting to hold a platform and another attacking the platform from a catwalk. The design of catwalks needs to be centered around the platforms giving someone assaulting a platform distinct advantages and disadvantages to play against those of the platform. Players should neither be discouraged from defending a platform nor from attacking another. Since the walkways are not intended as the primary playspace, they should not have significant height variation so they can more effectively be used for traversing the map and don't put players using them at a disadvantage. If there are too few platforms it's easy to end up making these the primary playspace and people spend the game running in circles rather then strategically holding certain positions and moving between them. That gameplay becomes boring quickly and with little to distinguish one walkway from another the map can seem unnecessarily complicated. Comparing layouts of your maps to some other notable maps yours are far less complicated but seem more so because of the way they are designed.

    I hope this helps you improve your forging.
     
  4. gaagaa1829

    gaagaa1829 Promethean

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    Map Update

    Thanks guys, maybe my next one I will try to avoid using any catwalks/bridges, diversify and play with some other pieces. I think I get what you (Pyro) were saying about the catwalks, many of them on the first map had no where to escape to. You could be trapped on them if anyone in the towers or higher platforms caught you while you were in the middle of them.


    Edited by merge:


    So I added to the map as suggested, pics below and updated map is on my fileshare.

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    Birds eye view

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    Side view of the addition

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    New enclosed room from the front
     
    #4 gaagaa1829, Feb 5, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013

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