Just from reading the thread (yes all of it) I have to say, the map looks pretty good in my opinion, but I'd like to reiterate some of the points others have made, specifically the gauss hog. Now I personally love using it because it is just so much fun, but it is extremely frustrating when you are going against it. Now I would either recommend changing it to a regular hog, or providing each team with a counter measure for them, also the 120 second respawn time seems a little too quick for vehicles as OP as those. I would say that this map looks fantastic overall, but the only other thing that I could think of, is the due to the banshees and hogs, most of the fighting will be directed towards the underground/covered areas of the map rendering the outside areas unused due to banshees flying around and hogs on the ground. I could be wrong, but that has been my experience with somewhat similar maps, I look forward to seeing this map around. Now as to the little flamewar with duck, that really is just something that does not belong here, and to the OP, you can't take criticism so seriously, either ignore it or take it to PM's, don't **** up your own thread.
Do you spend more time making the thread or the map...? Anyway, glad you actually listened to feedback and entirely re-worked your map from that...probably the first time I've seen someone do that on this forum. Aside from the LoS on the side (don't know why you think that openness is still a good idea) pretty solid map, nothing amazing like other people are claming it because they're blinded by ur photshup skillz, but yeah, very nice. Looking forward to that Didact's Tomb map especially.
This looks even better than the original. I'm still all about helping with the testing. I'll be available Wednesday around 10:30 CST (9:30 for me) Invite plz?
Duck said most of what I wanted to say in reply to you. A couple additional things: Please stop using colors - I'm using the dark skin and I didn't even want to read your post because of this. I won't tell you what problems I see with your map for several reasons, including your attitude and you insisting on everyone downloading and playing your map before posting at all (What is the point of screenshots if we're not allowed to judge based on them? Why are they even required on map posts?). I'll reiterate this, even though Duck said it - the amount of time or whatever you do to get your map done doesn't matter. I could spend a hundred hours on a garbage map or two on a nice one. You also evidently haven't taken all the advice from the community, because you don't want to even listen to what some of us have to say. Quoted for truth.
Gauss Hogs I added because I felt the standard hog would be to underpowered due to all the cover so I figured try a gauss and see how it goes with testing. If it's to overpowered I will switch it back to a standard. Just wanted to test it first. Also the dates are not set in stone, the map will test for however long I feel needed but I feel that's about how much longer I need because it has been tested for awhile now and nobody else has any suggestions anymore, except the gauss... I just added that. Deffinitley, Games start in 2 hours! I know and that's exactly how I feel. I come back to forge hub after being gone since Halo 3 and now there are so many haters. It wasn't like this during Halo 3 and now it's a "who's got the biggest balls" contest. ForgeHub is a community designed to improve your Halo experience and not bash on a bunch of amateur map makers that are doing this for nothing but fun. For some reason people here feel they think they are the best map makers ever and know every corner and rule when it comes to making maps and everything can be judged from screenshots. You won't tell me the problems becuase you don't see any and this map wouldn't even exist if I didn't take criticism. My attitude is there because you guys are bashing me for no apparent reason. "uh you made your thread look too good, oh you don't test your map, oh you have dates, oh no there so many problems but I can't name a single one." If I haven't taken all the advice from the community, what am I leaving out...? please tell me, I'm dying to know. And don't say Gauss, I just added that and wanted to test it first and if it's OP I will take it out.
Since I feel like you're talking directly to me, I'll respond. People who comment based on screenshots don't claim to know everything. Oftentimes, there are people who make completely erroneous statements based on misleading screenshots. However, your attitude is one that states that all screenshot-based comments are not helpful in any way (Note the use of everything instead of something in your post).
Stating that the map plays poorly and basing that off some screenshots is unprofessional and dumb. The screenshots are there to show you what the map looks like. If you could tell so much from screens then why doesn't 343 just test their maps like that? Really, are we really arguing about this. I feel like I've grown dumber. Yet, with all these comments from you and duck, not one helpful bit of criticism has been spoken or one single suggestion stated. Please just leave my thread if you have nothing to say regarding the map or anything useful at all. I spent 3 hours on the thread and been working on the map since release. I listened to people bash my last map, made the changes and yet they are still bashing. I'm still here, caring what people have to say but I also know I can't make everyone happy, especially people who just like being negative. What LoS are we talking about now? Please be specific or else its just jabber to me. Sorry you think that people are judging my map off the beauty of my thread but that's not the case, they actually play the map and say how much they enjoy games on it. You might just enjoy a game on it as well if you tried. Then you might be able to apply some "tested" criticism rather than just stating what you see from some screenshots.
what I don't understand is people who won't download the map, but instead ask for more screenshots, because there aren't enough to judge if the map is worthy of a download oO.
Moderator Interjection While discussion is fine flaming is not. OP, please do not be so defensive towards criticism, even negative criticism. I have a similar problem. just take their opinion, good or bad, and move on. Posters, if the discussion turns to flaming, or the obvious jabs continue, I will be doling out infractions. Good day.
Well said. Soulcrusher, if you wish to talk further with me, VM or PM me. Also thanks to Sharpshooter for coming in.
The map is very nice, I haven't yet played enough to give good feedback on the gameplay, but there are some things you should look at: 1. Soft kill barriers; Make sure they go past the object you want protected, i found i could stand on the edge of really high objects and be out of the kill boundary. 2. Gauss Warthogs are generally overpowered, I don't think they should be in ANY map. 3. I was getting frame rate issues at the Main bases, I was NOT playing splitscreen. You should take a look at simplifying them maybe so they don't create the frame rate lag. 4. The top towers at each base seem a little overpowered, as they have decent cover and make an excellent flag defence spot. As well as providing some nice long range spots to shoot players. 5. I spawned at the enemy teams base multiple times during CTF. I would like to give better feedback on the gameplay but I didn't get to play it enough. Seems pretty well balanced, maybe a little to much going on in the center, might want to simplify it a little. Just my thoughts.
1. I will fix. 2. I'll switch 'em out with the standard hog. 3. I noticed some frame rate drop going off the grav lift but the ENTIRE map is in your view at that point so I may have to get rid of alot of objects to fix this. We'll see. 4. I'm going to wait for more feedback on the towers before I make any changes. 5. This is probably because of the neutral spawns, I'll have to edit the spawn zone so this won't happen. Thanks for the feedback and the things that need to get fixed. I also noticed how much flow there is through the center through just because it's direct, short, and lots of cover so I may do some changes there to stray people away from the center.
I played on this last night with you and the frame rate was randomly pushing the basement, and the team sizes were only 4 each IIRC. Some outstanding concepts in architecture, but the blocks need some leaning...
Yeah I've been noticing this as well. I went into forge just earlier and deleted a third of the map and there was still frame rate drop. I think it's because when you're @ one base, looking towards the other, there are so many objects visible (everything is in front of you) so that's a lot to process @ one time and is probably going to be the death of this map just because the system can't process and keep up.
We're done arguing. Comments in this thread will pertain to this map, and only this map. That means: comments and critique, whether positive or negative, are just fine - as long as they're referencing the map in question, and not a specific person or something they've done. Infractions will follow if people continue to start dramatic arguments.
Performance The map needs to be dramatically simplified if it hopes to succeed in any environment—it's just not performant enough, creating shadow draw-in and huge framerate drops. There's also a lot of z-fighting throughout the map, but that's small stuff compared to the former. The first thing I'd recommend is nixing anything that's there for aesthetics. Shield doors, for instance, are taxing to render. You've also included your clever ladder designs, although they're unnecessary in the map and would be better replaced by some gravity lifts. Edit: Next, after piecing your map apart, I've noticed you're using a lot of expensive pieces (both in budget and especially in lighting) very prevalently throughout the map. Bridges are expensive for the lighting engine to render, and you want to limit their use whenever possible. Having them throughout the map as railings is a big no-no. Try and stay away from them. You also have Station, Consoles littered throughout the map, but with their complexities nested below. You can't afford to be making aesthetic choices like this. You need to find the cheapest piece for the job, and decorative (although it's under Impact) pieces like that are the most expensive, both in lighting and performance. They're ironically low-priced in budget, but the lighting limit is going to be your true test to meet performance. Rule of thumb: Avoid anything from the map or decorative tile set. They're complex. They'll ruin your performance and kill your lighting before you get anywhere near 10,000. Struts are so complex you can replace them with, I believe, 5x Rock 4's from Ravine to achieve the same performance cost. It's crazy. Large Walkway Cover; Walkway, Large and anything else with more than 4 vertices can be rough. Try to cut back. I'd recommend trying to shave around 2 grand from your budget, all the while replacing complex-to-render pieces with simpler ones. It's going to be a huge overhaul and kill your beautiful aesthetics, but you need a playable map before a beautiful one. Spawning You're going to want to look into how to do CTF spawning correctly by investigating Ragnarok. You need to implement flag-at-home spawn zones as well as flag-away spawn zones. The regular team spawns for slayer should be simple third and third map implementations. The spawns for CTF are similar to what you did, but with different labels. I don't believe they're there, but that was just from a quick look in Forge after seeing other comments. Vehicles Are there any anti-Banshee weapons on this map? Stick a respawning Spartan Laser or Rocket Launcher around the map somewhere. They're going to dominate, especially with the easily accessible cover around the edge of the entirety of the map. Also, as many have mentioned, the Gauss Hog is just a terrible addition to the sandbox. It's not a vehicle you fight, it's a vehicle that magically kills you before you get to engage. It's frustrating, overpowered and serves a different role from the normal Hog. Lastly, Mongeese. Perfect for this map, and they'd be so much fun to ride around in. Why isn't there a pair of them on the map? Name The name of this map is terrible. I've already forgotten it, in fact. Baptism by Fire? It's certainly your map and thus your vision, but at least Strongside was a cool name, albeit the name of a well-known Halo pro. This map has a long way to go before it's feature-ready. Kill the deadline.
I believe they're entirely drawn in. I've had framerate drops in the enclosed area in the middle of Landslide, and if there was some sort of culling, you wouldn't see that. It would be hard to have anyway given the nooks and crannies prevalent throughout CA's tile design—you're constantly seeing through little cracks between pieces.
This is not true, unless the labels and spawn zones function differently from Reach. You only NEED to have a spawn zone simply labeled "CTF" and make it game specific, unless you want it to show up across other gametypes. This zone can occupy the same volume as a Slayer Respawn Zone; just do 1 zone for each team, covering half the map. Of course it's up to the forger how he wants it to be set up, but FLAG AWAY and FLAG AT HOME zones make things very complicated, and are generally unnecessary.
I wouldn't say home and away spawns are complicated, but I agree that there is a simpler approach. At any rate, his current implementation with spawning is overly complex and doesn't work. If you check out an on-disk map that supports CTF, you'll see the preferred way to implement CTF spawning and it's relatively simple through the use of spawn zones and all neutral respawn points. The only team-adjusted spawn locations are initial spawns. Unrelated: Performance I looked into Baptized by Fire a little more closely in Forge, cutting out all of the pieces I've found to be complex in lighting costs throughout my time building my own map on Ravine, but I believe this map might be dead on arrival, at least barring any sort of lighting patches by 343. Even reducing the budget down to just above 5 grand—by removing all non-essential use of lighting-expensive pieces—if you don't kill any of the "Station, Corridors" pieces, the map still won't render lighting. They're just so absolutely expensive in performance that I believe some of the identity of this map is going to have to be lost before it has any hope of working as intended. You can raise your budget up to a cool 6 grand AND get lighting working if you cut out a ton of non-essential (see: non-track) "Station, Corridors" on top of all of the cutting of lighting-expensive pieces, but that ultimately leaves some pretty big holes in the map, both functionally and aesthetically. I feel as if your best option is to consider shrinking the map in length by about two station corridors in width; if you do that, you might be able to squeak out a map not too dissimilar to this, but without the devastating performance loss. Sorry dude.