I've just ran a search through and we have nowhere to actually talk about lore and such within the Halo Universe, so figured this was the best place to talk about it. There was a discussion earlier in the chat box, and it's kind of annoying having to spoiler out a massive discussion just in case people haven't played the game yet, so I'd assume this is the best place to talk excluding Halo 4 discussion as that's more game related. Discussion Rules! Anything that has any information regarding something someone has not yet read or played, or viewed in terms of video content; you MUST place this information in a Spoiler. No flaming or mindless arguing. It's a discussion, not an argument. It's here to find the truth! Standard forum rules obviously apply No spam or spoiler complaints when you've clicked the spoiler button...... How to spoiler: Spoiler [noparse] Spoiler Insert spoiling text [/noparse] Anyway, to kick start the whole thing, I've a few questions about the ending of Halo 4 and it's connection to Primordium... Spoiler DO NOT OPEN THE NEXT SPOILER UNLESS YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS BEFORE COMPLETING HALO 4 OR ANY SPARTAN OPS EPISODES!! (Or otherwise, the book 'Primordium') Spoiler The main discussion we had earlier was what could possibly happen to Cortana now as she is one of the main characters of the story and has been left rampant aboard, the Forerunner, Didact's ship merged with The Domain. Now, I see a few potential scenarios and how the direct connection to Primordium comes in that Greg Bear stated John-117 has in Halo 4 like one of the main characters of Primordium has. I believe the connection between Halo 4 and Primordium is the ability to have an ancestor connected to you on mental plane of existance. A part way through the book, both Chakas and Riser realise they have another being inside their head coaxing them into completing certain tasks. These other beings can communicate through their 'host' with anyone they see fit to and can communicate "silently" with their host. This leads on to the ending cutscene with John and Cortana in an alternate dimension of sorts, surrounded by binary, code and data in what appears to be Cortana's realm. John is seen as floating around unconsciously at this point and is in no way connected to the forerunner ship. So, unless John is dreaming his encounter with Cortana and this realm is not real, it appears somehow Cortana has transferred her presence from the Forerunner ship, where she partioned herself, and has somehow merged herself with John's consciousness. Now, you'd imagine that wouldn't be feasible unless Cortana has fused herself with John's suit which is one scenario, potentially... However, in Primordium, these other beings held in the hosts Chakas and Riser were once the ancestors of the Ancient Human civilisation that were at war with the Forerunners. They were captured during the Forerunner v Human war and were transported to a facillity where they would be catalogued and analysed for tactical data. These imprints of the human's could be placed into any living or artificial life with Forerunner technology. Now, as Cortana was connected to the Domain and split into many segments of herself. It's possible that while John and the Didact were first fighting without Cortana's involvement, she accessed the Library from the Domain aboard Didact's ship and placed one fragment of herself in there. The connection I can't seem to draw up is how her imprint is combined with John's mental state like Riser and Chakas. The only solution I can draw up to this is during the phase where the Librarian accellerates John's evolution and it unlocks his potential to have a merged consciousness like the two humans. As this may be a bit of a stretch as it currently stands... there's a few stray chapters in Primordium that read from a 'scrambled' AI that believes he is one of the two Humans; Chakas or Riser. So, it's perfectly possible for Forerunners to merge a Human's imprint with both Sentient and Artificial lifeforms. Is it so much of a stretch to merge Artificial imprints, taken from the living tissues of Dr Halsey (as mentioned in Halo 4), with John? The Spartan Ops Episiode 2 seems to create a further understanding of this concept. A high energy, Forerunner device is discovered at the end of Episode 1. This device is then in the Episode 2 video which has a scientist examine the product. Upon touching it, the binary from the device encircles the scientist, analysing his body by every inch and then disintergrates him into the device itself. I now believe this scientist has had his imprint catalogued and he is uploaded to the domain. While this doesn't prove my theory about Cortana now becoming a merged Ancilla with John, it doesn't disprove it either. It's perfectly feasible given the knowledge from the book, the connections between the characters, and what the lasting cut scene could possibly mean. If you have any theories or lore discussions as to what could possibly happen next... or you just need questions asking. Jump into the discussion!
Spoiler I believe MC has retired since in the ending he takes all his armor off. Including his helmet. And, for all we know Cortana is dead.
Let me help you with that Spoiler I thought that "binary code" stuff MC was floating within was the light bridge Cortana was inhabiting. I thought she surrounded Chief in the hard light bridge to protect him from the nuclear blast. Since she obviously could form her AI body from the light (the scene before she traps the Didact, I just figured that was her in AI form emanating from the hard light bridge. Just my take on it, could be all within John's head
Yep, im digging this. Was planning a thread for this last day, but didnt had the time to make it. I hope this does include SpOps too, because i see potential for it, but i didnt really like the missions that i have played yet. I feel like they need to go further into the story, every mission you are Crimson, team crimson, blast a few people and touch some buttons and get out again. I know this is the beggining but im hoping for some more story interactment. Hacksaw is my favorite SpOps mission so far.. Spoiler Most defenitly not retired, since his armor is just taken off, like every other spartan employee on the deck, like the IV,s. Lasky is just like i imagined him, and even more after watching FUD.
Spoiler I believe cortana will become like the forerunner AI 05-032 Mendicant Bias except she won't defect to anyone. She will come back as a form of AI god beyond comprehension but will suffer from rampancy and may or may not turn on humanity and will have to be "deleted" by master chief. I have a feeling they might bring the flood back which would suck, in all honesty the flood are some of the coolest enemies in any sci fi lore ever. We know so little about them. What if they killed the precursors and they are merely using them to get to the forerunners and humans? Either way i'm excited to see where they go next
I've been playing through campaign again, and with my little theory behind the storyline... Spoiler I noticed some more references to the 'reincarnations' of the sentient life forms. The Didact was the one conducting the research in which the lifeforms were digitised and then reproduced as another organic lifeform, not the librarian. However, the librarian appears to have been digitised as well. Her lifeform has been stored somewhere which as Didact states "Even in death your meddling..." So, while Chief is communicating with the Librarian, he's actually in the digitised world. Then I realised that in the adverts for Halo 4, John is locked in a blue beam of energy and a promethean knight approaches him and the trailer cuts out. John is being held a prisoner in the trailer... but at no part of the campaign does John ever get held captive? This lead me on to believe that when the Chief first encountered the Didact and was knocked unconscious by the slipspace rupture from the Didact's ship. He was actually captured by the Prometheans before he ever regained consciousness. In which, he was then retained in the energy field (much like all the main characters from the Forerunner Novels by Greg Bear) and from here, Chief was digitised and when you regain consciousness, you're playing out the story as John would have expected it to go with the influence of the other beings already in the Domain. Another hint at this is in the novel's the main characters are lead by AIs into what appears to be a safe location, but it is infact the palace of pain covered in a veil of deceit. While playing as John, you are lead around a construct by AIs and the dialogue between John and Cortana is; "...it could be a trap?" "Would it be anything else?" Similarly, John may have been reanimated as an organic lifeform afterwards (so it may be a dream for John, it may not be). Cortana speaks with the Librarian but has no knowledge of John meeting her... and when she is reunited with John, she says his vital signs are off the charts after his "evolution". What's to say he wasn't reanimated as a human (which explains his invulnerability to the super weapon (I forgot it's name)) and was infact reanimated as a similar species with it's immunity?
Spoiler Sorry to disagree with your whole "alternate realm" deal, but the only way I saw the ending was that Cortana has saved up enough power in order to create hard light; sorrounding John in a sheild of it to protect from the blast, and then creating herself a body from it. Past that, the ship is destroyed, and the last remnants of Cortana faded with the body she had created. If Master Cheif does remain the playable character for future Halos, I imagine we might see another Cortana-model AI, although probably with a different name to avoid confusion. The possibility of John coping with such a situation, including accidently treating his new partner like the old Cortana, strikes me as quite interesting.
Spoiler Ok well honestly from what the first post said it does make sense, oh and the ai your talking about is 343 guilty spark before the events of halo 3, thats how he got to the ark, the librarian was supposed to be there but has died and her soul (memory) is in the mantle. Cortana would most likely exist in jhon due to his being advanced, in Primordium the forerunner talk about the fact that there are others in the mantel, not just forerunner but human. So technically jhon could access the mantel to talk to cortana due to his being evolved to the highest level human in the game. Or for that fact the Lord of Admirals or any other human because from my understanding the mantel is very much intact, thats what the didact means at the end by re taking the universe and bringing back his people he was going to access the mantel essentially download all the forerunners there and implant them in either AI bodies like the promethian knights or just make living tissue bodies with ai brains. PS. the didact is not bad wtf h4 did they even read Primordium, yeah he stopped humanity but he was helping the librarian before the master builder caught and from the story imprisoned him.
Spoiler No one thinks they'll use the composer to bring her into some realistic form? I don't know a **** ton about the story elements outside the games, and I'll admit I had my confusions while playing, but I'm guessing the composer has a massive link to the future of Cortana.
Spoiler Considering the lack of mention of it in the ending or Sparten Ops, and the fact that the HAVOC mine blew up the Didact's ENTIRE ship, and the fact the Composer was nearly point blank to the blast? I was under the impression it was destroyed.
That's what I've been telling Chuck. http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-...126473-halo-4-discussion-236.html#post1555101 Super Halo 4 spoilers below. Also a mention of SpOps ep 2. Spoiler Some of the stuff that stuck out to me immediately, and it might just be the writer in me because it was super super obvious where they are going with it: The talk with the Librarian is centered around the notion of permeable digitization. That you could enter and exit the physical and digital realms at will. The plot of Halo 4 really centered around this, as the prometheans are failed attempts at digitizing humans (I think they were humans?). It screamed endgame for me, Cortana is going to get the Tron treatment. Cortana's mention at the end about her waiting forever to touch MC was more than just a personal moment to me. If I were writing the series, that would be the place I would lay final groundwork for future plans, just one little almost innocuous comment that has greater implications. It's pure foreshadowing. Spartan Ops Episode 2 outright shows the egghead getting digitized into the box. It hasn't been confirmed yet, but it looked like he got sucked in, and considering the central theme of Halo 4 campaign I think it's a safe bet.
Keep in mind that Halo 5 is supposed to be really dark. Also, @TSB's. I was thinking that Cortana was going to access new forerunner technology that makes here into a physical, android being in either 4, 5, and 6, and I still think this will be the case.
But the problem is that you can't digitize and un-digitize someone safely. It's implied they lose more of their minds on each trip though. Spoiler And yes, the Promethians are ancient humans who the Forerunners digitized attempting to save them from the flood. On a different topic, anyone else hoping to see the Flood in Spartan Ops?
That's the current case. I'm saying it'll happen down the line, and not necessarily with current tech.
I dunno, I would prefer it didn't happen, honestly. Spoiler Even though Cortana is my favorite character, and has been since CE, I really loved the way they killed her off, and would feel kinda cheated if they brought her back. Sacrificing herself to save Cheif and humanity, her final goodbye, and all that was just epic and extremely touching.
I was the same way, but I think it could be very awesome if handled the right way. And considering H4 handled canon the right way... in every way... they have my faith in their further narrative adventures. That being said Spoiler They're bringing her back, for sure. I'm more certain of this than I am the digitization thing.
Spoiler I could handle a Cortana copy of some sort, as a new sarcastic AI companion in future Halos, since it's sorta a staple of the main series. But I'm really not sure how I would feel about Cortana herself coming back. It would just be dissapointing for me. That said, I'm kinda hoping to see the series move on from John, possibly by killing him off in the future.
Spoiler That's what I'm saying, I don't actually think she's gone. I think it was a poetic moment set up for future stories. I would be thinking this even if we didn't have the confirmation of further sequels. But the fact that we know there are other ones coming, and that this is the foothold on which the others are based, I think some ever-apparent plot-strands are being sowed now for later reaping. We may get a copy Cortana, and we may not even see Cortana-1 for a while, but I'm confident she'll be returning in the future beyond my cursory hopes about it. And on that, beyond the experience itself, and beyond looking into the extended universe, I don't really care about the franchise in the same way most fanboys do. I used to, when the Halo 3 believe campaign made me think Chief was going to die, but beyond that they're just fun games to me. I do think the mythos and the characters within are pretty damn awesome, but I don't actually care about their deaths. Whereas in other stories, I'd be screaming that their deaths were NONCANON AND HE'LL BE BACK NEXT SEASON and such. From a writing standpoint, everything I outlined above is just too obvious a cliffhanger dangling plotline to think it is just something to bolster the universe instead of being a main point for future narratives.
You know what I'm looking forward to? Integrating Halsey into a more meaningful role than just a cursory character. Sarge was talking about foreshadowing, I think with the amount of references to her plus what was seen in that prologue means she will have an important role in the next two Halo games. (At least I hope).
I'd be inclined to disagree. I feel Halsey's involvement is pretty much the same as her involvement in the books. She get's a mention, she's always somewhere nearby... but whatever it is she's doing, literally has no relevance to what the Spartan's are doing but they always have to protect her. I think she's in the prologue simply because she's seen as the 'mother' of all the spartans and she's responsible for their actions. I'd agree with most of what you've said Sarge as I'm essentially on the same wave length. I just see multiple scenarios of how it could all unfold. Spoiler The one that takes context from Primordium/Cryptum and the Halo 4 trailer of Chief being a prisoner is quite dillusional though. I can see a major plot twist of chief just being trapped in a digitised form and being transformed into a new form of mendicant bias by the Didact (who is still alive, as chief just dreamed the notion of saving Earth and Humanity). The reason Didact captured John was to assess his knowledge of Humanity like the Lord of Admirals and Yprin and to learn Humanity's tactics. Basically, considering how open the ending is... the possibilities are almost endless. I think it'd be extremely bold if they converted the biggest hero of all the previous games into one bad-ass, mother-****ing enemy...