Much as I love Valhalla in its H3 iteration, I definitely agree. Remakes cannot exist solely to re-create classic experiences, they must validate themselves by being able to embrace the new sandbox elements. Ragnarok looks beautiful precisely because it seems to be accurate enough to allow for a great classic mode map with a quick forge-run, but also acts as a great basis for the new elements like the Mantis.
Valhalla was just an incredible map all around. Even team rockets was a blast there. Is there any chance this was just a heavy variant of Ragnarok? That would make much more sense than just throwing heavy vehicles on the map.
Valhalla always had vehicles outside of Social Slayer didn't it? I seem to remember wraiths being there before.
MM version I think for all playlists was a warthog banshee and two mongooses in each base. I remember vehicles in social slayer because I had a warthog comeback from 20-40 to win 50-45. MM Heavy version added a gauss? warthog wraith and scorpion to each base and I think two mongooses in the side bases with receivers in those from the base teleporters. There may have been prowlers choppers and ghosts on this version but I don't remember exactly. The default version was the same as the MM version but with a wraith in each base.
The valhalla heavies variant didn't have a gauss, only Sandtrap and Standoff heavies did. It didn't have prowlers, choppers, or ghosts either. It did have 2 neutral lasers by the bubble and near the pelican, a laser in each base, and rockets where the laser used to be. Right, there were no wraiths in MM. The team ARs social slayer variant had banshees, but the Team BRs social slayer variant didn't (I don't know why, nor do I know why there was valhalla ARs at all). I'm not sure why default hornets were compared to the mantis. I didn't play H3 since its start, but I doubt that normal missile hornets were in any MM variant before I started playing. They weren't in any variants since I started playing; it's as if they just wanted to put the thing without a nerf as a forgeable option without a nerf before they came up with the transport hornet (much weaker guns and no missiles) for Avalanche, which (transport hornet) was perfect. I am not against any particular change to Valhalla gameplay simply for the sake of keeping the exact same experience. Not only would I like some changes; I know that Ragnarok can't play the same as valhalla with H4's sandbox. That sentence is already an answer to Security's question: "What is the point of having Valhalla in the game if they can't update it with the new sandbox?" : it would be updated with the sandbox whether the mantis was added or not. The question is whether or not it the mantis will change gameplay for better or worse. I'm not saying I know that it will be either or- we will know once the game comes out. But I have ideas as to how it could be a potential problem, as opposed to a matter of a different sandbox. For example, if the game revolves around concentrating your team's power weapons' fire against the mantis in order to not lose a lot of points/map control to the point where fighting amongst the half of each team who don't have power vehicles/weapons is insignificant to the scoreboard, I think that we can agree that the mantis is a bad addition, not just an addition to valhalla. If the single driver mini-tank makes the warthog as effective as a mongoose, it's an unwanted change. If the power weapons are unpredictable and uncontestable; numerous enough to be untrackable yet scarce enough to leave half the team relatively powerless, Ragnarok's default gameplay will be changed for the worse, or at least that's what I suspect many players would agree with if the changes did have those effects. Some variants are there to give players a chance at different fun vehicles even if balance isn't perfect in every way (heavies), but it might not be optimal for the default variant. But another thing in response to Security's question and Pegasi: not many players are really going to choose between H3's valhalla and H4's Ragnarok. When a sequel comes out, everyone wants to try out the obvious improvements (graphics, forge, campaign) and try out the new sandbox, but most players do not go back, and players that don't like all of the sandbox changes do not want to play an old game with an unreliably small population just to get a good experience from one map with a different sandbox. You can't be sure that you will get a match on valhalla the first five searches anyway. There have been too few players in H3 to get matched up with players of your own skill since Reach came out, and I played H3 for months after Reach came out. When H4 comes out, most players will not have played Valhalla for a long time, and so I think that there would be a point in keeping Ragnarok the same as valhalla if they chose to. There would be a point if it was one game after H3, but there is even more of a reason because it is the second game after H3: give players an experience that they know they love because they could not get it otherwise. Different topic: The mantis seems to be partially redundant with the scorpion (I'm not saying that that's bad, there are always some redundancies); I wonder if they could have given the normal hog a weak rocket secondary firing mode instead of having the mantis? Or better- a grenade launcher secondary firing mode (without the EMP) with a slow ROF. Seeing as how they don't have a grenade launcher, it wouldn't be confusing if the warthog launcher's grenades were as strong as frag grenades.
I compared the mantis to the hornet because they both have the chaingun rocket combo and are both easy to maneuver. Chainguns are great for infantry and Rockets are great against vehicles. Combining the two in a highly maneuverable vehicle controlled by one player is too much concentrated firepower to not have issues. Think of how powerful the banshee was in Halo 3 when used correctly.
Agreed, I remember when I had to face a full team of 5 by myself alongside a not very good player and another who was AFK. S I climbed into the Banshee and effectively won the match for the team in it. I'm sure I still have that match saved as a film on Halo 3. Not the Fileshare but defiantly saved it.
In this vid it looks fairly weak to BR fire so it looks like a "glass canon" strong damage but weak defense and the maneuverability as in been able to straf more easily then a ghost will benefit it. But the hugest weakness I've seen in this video is that you can visually see when the shields are down and recharging (idk about other vehicles) but this means you know when its weak and that's a HUGE disadvantage in vehicle combat. (its as important as when in DMR vs DMR how important knowing when shields are down) and if other vehicles don't do this its a huge nerf to it but that could balance it Halo 4 Ragnarok Infinity Slapyer Mantis Gameplay - YouTube
I wouldn't say it's exactly a glass cannon seeing as a guy who doesn't play halo much lasted until he got lasered. With the plasma pistol option for secondary though this might end up being like BTB elite slayer.
He knows to use BR and go 4 shots to body and 1 to head, That's good enough to warrant a average player imo and I'm sure the other random players at convention where just as good. So that point has no real value. Specially since he was just camping enemy base while enemys where spawn killing his team. With players who know how to play(Could easily kill a wraith in reach with DMR), I don't see the mantis lasting long especially if team focus fires, 8 guys BRing mantis looks could almost be one shot. -edit Completely forgot it was COD loadouts, Thought it was BR/PP loadout gametype because seen someone else with PP. Vehicles hopefully got buffed a lot to compensate for PP's
I agree with the BTB elite slayer possibility, but how can you not also realize that the reason the Mantis was being shot for short periods of time, right before the driver would have died, is because the people that he was playing didn't know enough to consider the Mantis a threat or know that it would take so much damage from a few BR shots? Players will find this out at low levels and BTB and be sure to keep the mantis pinned down with a couple of BRs if the Mantis' entire team isn't keeping up pressure. I wonder why one of the people who played a match with the mantis and uploaded a video said that he fired three clips of DMR ammo into the mantis to no effect? I didn't look at the video closely enough to be sure that you can or can't ascertain whether or not the bullets are hitting the cockpit, but I think that that must be its weak spot. It survived a direct laser hit in the other guy's video, so maybe it was just a different build and they nerfed the Mantis' resistance drastically, kind of like when they decided that a scorpion would work on Hemorrhage at first and had to quickly change it once they realized that it didn't make any sense.
There is a lot of information about the Mantis in the new behind the scenes video. Plus a **** ton of other cool stuff. Making Halo 4: Infinity Multiplayer Halo Official Site