Anyone here who plays BTB has probably noticed the new maps popping up in the playlist with the gametype TU BTB Heavies. The only notable change from the normal Big Team Slayer gametype is a score limit of 200 rather than the normal 100. The following maps are the ones I remember. Let me know if there are more. I wrote a bit of description for each map which I tried to keep unbiased followed by my thoughts on the map which are entirely biased. Asphalt is built above Forge World and a nice break from the scenery of normal maps. The arsenal consists of two wraiths, two revenants, four warthogs (two rocket), and six ghosts. Most of the battles take place on a road that snakes through the map although infantry have access to raised walkways that provide protection from vehicles. My first thought about Asphalt was that it was a bit small for a Heavy map, but cover splitting areas of the map made enough different play spaces to fit everyone comfortably. Throughout the game, it seemed like every person had a power weapon or vehicle within a few seconds of spawning and the results of firefights were frequently like an expanded game of rock-paper-scissors except in the case of a tie, all involved die. Thanks to the design of the map, that ended up making the game especially fun and never being left without something powerful made this just what I would want in a Heavy map. The single thing that bothered me most about this map was the columns used to block vehicles from accessing the upper walkways. Of course this serves its purpose of protecting infantry, but it reduces the options for vehicles more than is desirable, and close quarters vehicle battles can be some of the most fun encounters in Big Team games. Second to that was the lack of any significant base for each team which combined with the small overall size and quick travel times made it easy to raid the enemy base for vehicles. One of the most effective strategies was to run into the enemy base, grab something powerful and kill people until succumbing to the combined fire. Once people learn the maps, however, there will undoubtedly be better base defense and such runs will be less frequent and successful. The most unique aspect, stemming from the lack of cover or height variation on the main road and close quarters nature of the map, was the extremely prevalent use of meat-shielding. Wraiths were almost as powerful as mobile cover for teammates and even other vehicles as the were on their own, and almost every destroyed vehicle was used as cover from those that were still alive. In most cases having so much of the map flat results in stale gameplay, but in on Asphalt it has brought out a gameplay style that is rarely seen. Breakout is the heavy variant of Breakpoint. Being DLC I can't say much about this. Cragmire is the heavy variant of Spire. Notable structural changes included a soft kill zone over the spire, a halfhearted attempt to block the mancannons to the spire, and a few stunt ramp platforms around the map. The arsenal includes two scorpions, two wraiths, four falcons, six warthogs (two gauss), six ghosts, and some mongooses. I'm not sure if that's all correct, but it gets the point across that this is about as Heavy as Sandtrap. My first thought from the initial loadout camera on Cragmire was Holy -blam!- that's a lot of vehicles! which to be specific was enough vehicles to hold three teams with space to spare.* Unfortunately my concerns were not proven to be unwarranted as the were with Asphalt. With the help of a friend, we manipulated the spawns to securely trap the other team far from the spire with only a falcon and warthog to counter the massive piles of vehicles spawning with us around the spire. Even without the two teammates who quit at the end of the game, the map was lopsided enough for us to maintain a steady lead throughout the game. The problem was exacerbated by the low spawn times on vehicles that overcompensated for their quick destruction. All in all this was just poorly thought out and executed. *From the initial loadout camera I saw 30 seats in vehicles. Post here if you can spot more Delta Facility is built in the central area of Hemmorhage, without about half the total playspace. The arsenal includes one falcon, two wraiths, two ghosts, and four warthogs (two rocket). Unlike most other heavy maps, each team has a strong base which although quit open is difficult to infiltrate. Central structures on opposite sides of the midline are connected by mancannons with the lower one holding the falcon which is protected from ground fire, and the upper one holding a spartan laser. Cover in the hills consists mostly of a number of small rock bridges made from pairs of rock arches which provide excellent cover for infantry. Having played Delta Facility many times through testing including back before it was converted to a heavy map, I can't give any first thoughts. The rock arch bridges are my favorite part of the map because they're fun to drive through and give infantry the necessary cover from warthogs. They make crossing the map relatively safe for infantry, as a place to stop and regain shields. Unfortunately, territories isn't an option for Delta Facility in matchmaking because that's where it really shines. It is one of the few maps designed around territories and the effort put into it shows up. Even the neutral gravity hammer is effective to clear out enemies under the arches. There's not much more to say since I don't have any nontrivial criticism for Delta Facility.[/spoiler] Eminence is the heavy variant of Highlands. Being DLC I can't say much about this. Graveyard is the heavy variant of Boneyard. Thanks to boneyard itself and pretty good placement of the additional weapons and vehicles this is a decent map. There are two Scorpions near each base along with two rocket hogs added to each base. Another banshee spawns on the far side of the ship and a neutral gauss hog spawns where the scorpion does in the normal version. My first thought here was that the scorpion was too far from the initial spawns for each team. Of course the intention of this was to allow infantry and other vehicles to take positions around the map for a few seconds before the scorpions come into play; however, this lead to the undesirable ability for me to drive my team's ghost to the enemy scorpion before the enemies could walk to it and spend a few happy moments getting overkills until an enemy spawned within boarding range of my scorpion. The only other incident was the gauss hog later in the game which, with an exceptionally skilled gunner proceeded to blast our team into the ground. Thankfully the game ended shortly after they stole our scorpion and the pain was not prolonged. Overall the map was about the same as normal Boneyard albeit with some more powerful vehicles, but the core gameplay was mostly unchanged. Breakneck is the heavy variant of Headstrong. Being DLC I can't say much about this. Rasu, formerly known as Amatersu, is built in the same space as hemmorhage with a bit of space blocked off at each end to prevent camping. The arsenal includes two scorpions, two falcons, four warthogs (two rocket), two ghosts, and two mongooses. Rasu is immediately recognizable by the four massive solar sails in the middle of the map to provide cover for and from the falcons. Rasu is another map I've played countless times and love every minute of. The combination of scorpions and Falcons as the major vehicles works out surprisingly well with the cover setup. A good pilot and gunner can often bring down a scorpion alone with a bit of concentration and will have little trouble doing so with support on the ground. The sails also provide cover from the rocket warthogs that can only lock on to a pilot who's not paying attention and stays out of cover for too long.[/spoiler] Superstition is the heavy variant of Ridgeline. Being DLC I can't say much about this. Typhoon is the heavy variant of Tempest. Being DLC I can't say much about this. Please try to keep discussion clean and about the maps.
First off, big team heavy is the ****. About the maps, I haven't played on all of them, but I mostly agree with your assessment of the maps. The spire variant was doomed from the beginning, due to it being on spire. I admire the effort they put into trying to balance it, but they messed up with the quick vehicle spawns and the seemingly random vehicle placement I really like both the hemorrage variants. I also very much enjoy that gauss warthog on the boneyard variant that you mentioned
I guess that depends on your definition of 'notable' but you are aware there are scoring bonuses for infantry and increased movement speed, right? I'm pretty sure there are a few other differences, but that's what comes to mind without actually looking it up. Edit: anybody else have some serious issues with the man-cannon up to laser spawn on Cragmire? I found it really easy to over/under shoot, and I saw a few other players experiencing similar problems.
Cragmire is already so small and already has so much cover, but they thought that it was necessary to put teleporters in. First of all, teleporters take time to learn, and you have to remember not just where each one takes you but what areas are safe from reciever nodes. I don't know if they thought about this, but a player should theoretically be able to be aware of when and from where an enemy can easily kill him/her, yet there so many instant kill weapons (3-clip rockets, fuel rod guns, lasers, snipers) and teleporters in what were previously the safest spots. If you don't have your eye on a nearby receiver node every second then you're probably going to die if someone goes through it. I think that one set of two ways on opposite ends of the map would have been sufficient.
Care to elaborate? I said I may have missed some. I looked through the gametype for other changes and didn't see any. I may have brought up the wrong gametype though so I'll check again next time I get a chance. I think that's the least of Cragmire's problems. I'm not saying there are none, but I have yet to see a good competitive map built on Spire. Asphalt I've seen and experienced a repeated issue with a gravity pull on Asphalt occasionally destroying vehicles passing through the center of the map. So far I've experienced it twice in a wraith and seen it happen again to another wraith and a revenant on separate occasions. Is this happening to anyone else?
This is the list I am aware of. delta facility (FW) asphalt (FW) rasu (FW) typhoon (Tempest) emenence (Highlands) supersition (Ridgeline) breakout (Breakpoint) cragmire (Spire) headstrong (Breakneck) graveyard (Boneyard) Rasu is my favorite of the group for a number of reasons. During testing some of us felt it could as well just be in BTB, but it was introduced as a heavy map for obvious reasons. The aesthetics are very clean, the blocks provide strong cohesion with each other (unlike most maps I see), and there isn't a lot of clutter about the map. The only thing I feel negative about it is it might help to expand it by about 10% in length. But it plays probably best of all of them. The Falcons receive great cover from the solar panels from laser, sniper, and Scorpion. Superstition is my map and I told one of the cartographers that in my opinion it played decently, possibly good, but not great; and that the only reason I would submit it to 343i if I were him is due to the map's dramatically different geometry. Apparently, 343i agreed. It also plays bomb and flag, and is very interesting when playing neutral bomb or neutral flag, since the focus of the game gets squarely on the center of the map. But whether 343i will introduce a heavy bomb or flag game is not clear at this point. The strange thing is how bungie had heavy maps in Halo 3 and 343i has heavy slayer GAME TYPE in Reach. These are the only two maps that I have much to say about. My experience with Cragmire was bad, due to the frame rate going south, forcing me to abandon the Spire, and the lack of any ability to setup a strategy on that map due to the heavy cluster of vehicles everywhere. I have never been a fan of Asphalt, because it's exclusive construction material of blocks does nothing to attract me. But I know a lot of people love it.
There is a good reason I 'forgot' about those maps. I don't have any DLC so they haven't showed up for me. If you'd like to do a short writeup for any of those (I'm sure you already have a writeup for superstition) that would be good. Rasu is my favorite too. The only issue I have is that one team tends to end up completely dominating and that doesn't bring out the full potential of the map at all. When there are evenly matched and well coordinated teams (ie. the 30+ tests I got to play on it) it is one of the most fun maps I've ever played. I agree about Asphalt, but that's not enough to ignore how much fun I've had on that map.
I wasn't certain what kind of summary/feedback you wanted from me on any of the maps. Try as I may, I just cannot get myself to ever enjoy maps like Asphalt or Precipice, because I never feel comfortable with that block-ish feeling all around me. For me, maps that look like blocks seem to make me feel like I am in an 1990's era video game, I guess.
That's too bad...Precipice is a pretty great asym. I imagine the playspace to be a business park with the 4x4 talls being office buildings. Out of all the forge maps in MM, Precipice feels the most like a real locale to me and my imagination fills in the gaps. The layout is what's important anyways, and Precipice also does that better than most of the MM maps. What forge maps that are in MM would you say don't feel block-ish?
Affinity - The first forerunner architecture and still the best by a country mile Rasu - though it has its blocks, the bases have a significant round shape as well to cut down the block feeling Delta Facility - clearly this looks like a garage like structure, sort of like a fire station or military installation with huge bay doors. Hemorrhage - due to a lack of blocks, the base actually looks like a base! I understand when you say you imagine. But there should be very CLEAR visual cues and there are not. It would take a stretch of my imagination to see anything, and I would constantly be struggling to see myself somewhere I could recognize, relate to, or feel is meaningful in the context of a FPS experience.
I always got the impression right from the get-go that Precipice is supposed to be a bunch of office buildings with streets running between them and grassy "park" areas off to the sides. For whatever reason, I never got that blocky feel from the map, even though its build is clearly dominated by the 4x4 tall. It just doesn't need complex geometry because it accomplishes this with simplicity instead. I also appreciate how much he was able to do with half a budget and the use of a natural terrain area most people shy away from. Not sure what you mean by lack of visual cues...Precipice has tons of orientation landmarks that tell you where you are in relation to other players. It has trees, open areas, enclosed areas, catwalks, rocks, perches, and more. It's one of the few Forge maps I can manage call-outs on (though I won't deny it's asym layout helps with this) It's funny that you mention Affinity as the most "non-blocky" map by a large margin. I think Affinity is one of the more blocky, "I obviously made this out of building blocks and brace larges," maps in MM, mostly due to the 90 degree angles made up of, well, blocks and brace larges. The bottom floor is a mess and looks like an area outside the map that you're not supposed to be able to play in. Even worse are the brace larges used as ramps leading to the top floor which don't look structurally sound at all and the covenant shields as LoS blockers are laughable. Furthermore, the connections and doorways on Affinity are all very stiff and blocky, whereas on Precipice they are natural, free-flowing, and overall more well integrated. Sure, Affinity feels "Forerunner," but that's really only because of it's high ceilings and sturdy-looking columns. Honestly, found most of the geometry to be rather bland and uninspiring. I can't say I'd ever vote for it should it appear in the line-up.Going back to visual cues- try doing call-outs on Affinity. From my experience on the map, they go something like this, "Uh, he's top mid." "Where on top mid?" "You know, top mid by, uh, sniper I think. Oh wait, now he went down to the bottom." "Where on bottom?" "Somewhere in one of those hallways with the braces and the blocks. I don't know, I never go down there unless I'm grabbing Rockets or got lost when running away." I do like the articles you've written and I appreciate some of your insights, but saying Affinity is far and above the best "non-blocky feeling" MM forge map makes it hard to take your opinion on them seriously.
Let's try this one again... I said that Affinity was the best forerunner architecture out there by a country mile. Nothing has come as close to immersing a player into a forerunner theme. The palette is forerunner, and Affinity demonstrated that to use it as such makes the best and optimal use of the blocks. Also, I do not see blocks in Affinity, because all I see are rooms and hallways that shout forerunner. The visual cues are extremely clear and I do not have to try at all to imagine where I am. [br][/br]Edited by merge: I would tend to agree, but I would say that the problem doesn't lie so much in the map as it does the palette. I could be very wrong on this. Someone might create a really nice all forerunner design that take game experience into a new direction of complexity for aesthetics.
Nothing about Affinity is forerunner. It's quite honestly one of the worst maps to ever be put into mm, right alongside Enclosed (except in Enclosed's defense, it probably plays better). Nothing about the FW forge pieces remind me of forerunner style architecture at all. And they way they were used on Affinity only makes them look worse. I won't continue because Lynx already covered everything else I hate about the map.
Does Asphalt have a ForgeHub thread? I haven't yet had the (mis)fortune of encountering it in Matchmaking.
Apologies, I took that to mean you also thought Affinity was the least "blocky" of the maps since the blockiness of Precipice was one of the reasons you disliked it. I still think that just because Godly was intentionally (mayhaps) going for "Forerunner architecture," does not exclude his map from falling into the blocky category. Besides, most Forerunner architecture I can recall seemed to have lots of triangular shapes and 30/45 degree angles, which Affinity has none of.
When I look at Affinity, I cannot see the blocks, because the architecture forces my perception to see nothing but forerunner through out - which is why I find Nibbs' perspective interesting. On the other hand, Precipice gives me ZERO visual cues to lock onto anything that I can relate to, anything at all that is common or readily recognizable. There are ZERO exaggerated visual cues to grab my perception with. So I am left seeing only blocks. Well, that is my take on it all..........
I know I shouldn't help derail this thread any further than it already has been, but I gotta throw in my two cents here. I like both Precipice and Affinity. Precipice, to me, is way more blocky than Affinity is. 4x4 talls are literally the biggest and blockiest peices available, and Precipice practically relies on them to shape the map. It's got other aesthetic qualities that make up for it though, grassy floors, blue skies, crates and such. Affinity only uses 1x4 blocks for the columns. There are practically no other blocks used anywhere, and you don't ever interact with them either. Affinity is not blocky, it's Forerunner, and is obviously inspired by Halo: CE, which consisted of lots of high ceilings, columns, gentle ramps and lots and lots and lots of GRAY. Also, the portable shields are not LoS blockers dude. You can see right through them. They are LoF blockers. That last sentence I quoted seems quite uncalled for. You're discrediting Mr. Green because of his opinions? Sounds like a big '**** you because you like a map that I hate.' The Big Team playlist needs to be a DLC- required playlist. This will include all the DLC heavy variants that soooo much fun to play on like Highlands, Tempest, Breakpoint etc. The people who paid for the maps are not getting their money's worth. When does anyone ever get to play a DLC map without being forced to jump into the Anniversary playlist? Never, practically. My favorite new heavy map is Rasu. It's not a stupid cluster**** of a map. It's got great balance, the Scorpion is definitely a force to reckon with as usual, but is forced to sit back and play defense. The infantry needs to control the Laser to establish vehicle dominance and reminds me of Standoff in this aspect. Some of the new heavy maps are serously overloaded with power weapons and vehicles, like Asphalt, which I think has literally every single power weapon on it. Cragmire's vehicles all spawn in 30 seconds. The Scorpion, the Wraith, the GAUSS hog. Every 30 seconds. Heavy maps should be pretty chaotic, but they should be slightly controllable, like Rasu is, and Asphalt and Cragmire are not. Bottom line, I like the new heavy gametype, but I am pretty disappointed that 343i does not make the playlist a DLC required playlist. The game is nearing it's end, and we still never get to play on the DLC maps. Around this time in H3's lifespan, the maps were already free. This time around, we all got ripped off, especially with the Big Team playlist and it's recent heavy implementation.