About a week ago I started thinking about how much better Asylum could have been if Bungie worked on it for even just a day. Every single time I play that map the forger inside me dies a little. Broken sight-lines, big gaps in between objects and framedrops are a common occurrence on Asylum. I've always wanted to a see a version of the map that was more faithful to the great Halo 2 Sanctuary. And instead of hoping for other versions to get into matchmaking I decided to build my own version. Now, a week later I present to you the first version of my Sanctuary remake: Refuge. With this version I tried to fix the problems that Asylum has. To try and reduce the chance of framedrops I will be using as a few objects as possible and try and keep the budget low. This will mean that the map will maybe not look as attractive as some Sanctuary remakes, it will definitely run smoother. From what I've heard no new version of Asylum got into matchmaking because they weren't splitscreen compatible. With this map I hope to achieve that goal. (Asylum has framedrops even in singlescreen but that's an entirely different story) Currently I have 5900$ budget left which is about 1400$ more than Asylum has, so that's a good start. I also removed the red and blue lights on the map which probably caused some of the framerate issues on the matchmaking variant. Overall I also don't nearly use as many objects. For example; where Asylum uses around 6 objects in the roof of each base I only use 2. Same goes for the sniper spawn area which is made up out of a whole lot of items on Asylum which is completely unnecessary. A look at the object-efficient base: Aside from performance improvements I've also made some changes to the geometry of the map. The biggest change that most of you will notice straight away is that you can not longer look from on sniper spawn to the other. This is primarily because of gameplay issues but it also improves performance around that area while zooming in. No sniper-to-sniper sightline: Some other examples of fairly small things I've changed are raised carbine walkways, jumps to ring 3, more accurate and balanced rock placement. I've also applied a change that Asylum introduced which is the ramp leading from the courtyard to sniper spawn. I liked that idea but it was exactly well executed so I improved it a bit. It's now easier to traverse and is less frustrating. Another big thing Asylum did wrong which many people (including I) didn't even know of is that the proportions of the map were screwed up pretty badly. The plasma pistol walkway on blue side was about half as short as the red one, putting off balance quite a bit. To fix this I had to build the map from the ground up. Raised carbine walkway: Ring 3 jump-up: Ramp from courtyard to sniper spawn: Lastly, I've also added a LoS blocker next to blue carbine. It acts the same as the outcrop on the opposite site of the map. On Asylum you could look the bottom blue carbine ramp to red sniper which made no sense as this was not an option on red side. With the objects I added this becomes a bit more balanced. Blue carbine LoS blocker: The map is currently set up for all gametypes (except Invasion and Race), teams of every colour and free-for-all. Keep in mind that it has dynamic spawns for the Slayer gametype which makes spawn-killing harder and makes the map play entirely different than with static spawns. Click here to download!
I feel as though bungie messed up sanctuary a lot but your version seems to look a lot better from what I can see. If you can get this going for TCOJ thing on tuesday that would be awesome.
I have never really enjoyed Asylum much, nor have I disliked it much. I just don't care about the map- but my game on here was by far the best and most balanced asylum game I have ever had. You did the job well, Overdoz1z.
Looks good in terms of structure. It's unfortunate that sometimes using the fewest pieces to replicate structure in a remake makes pieces the overlap in kind of ugly ways. I definitely agree with the decision to cut that LOS between the snipers. I look forward to trying out this version on tuesday.
You've done an excellent job here of fixing Asylum's numerous issues. Unfortunately, nothing will ever make me like the design of this particular map. I liked it in Halo 2, but it just didn't transition into Reach for me very well. However, in terms of the quality and playability of Sanctum, this fix/remake is top-notch.
Thanks for the replies guys. I've made some small changes since I posted this. Most notably the rock jump-ups to rings 2. They were a bit hard to use in the old version but now you can even walk up them and it will only require one more (non-crouch) jump to get in ring 2. Also, I just noticed there's another Sanctuary remake called Sanctum so my map is now called Refuge. If there's already one called Refuge than I've run out of synonyms, so screw it. And here's a link for the current version: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=26709020&player=Overdoz1z
It's awesome that you actually took the time to build it from scratch. This map seems to bridge the gap between Asylum and MLG Santuary, in terms of gameplay and aesthetics. I would be worried about players jet packing on top of the base or snipe roofs. They may be soft killed, but ten seconds up there is a long time. I would make the roofs bulkier somehow, to discourage jet packers from exploiting this. I would also prefer a static spawn set up. Players have already been playing Asylum and Sanctuary with static spawning for a while now.
You could jetpack up there on Asylum too and I've never really seen anyone use or exploit it. Hell, you could even jump up there without jetpack, I always liked doing that and continue to drop down behind someone in the sniper hut. I don't think it will be a problem with jetpacks and getting up there without one has become practically impossible. I'm still in the process of testing out dynamic spawns. I think the map could play a lot better that way. It will of course mean that people will have to completely relearn how to play on the map but I think it's worth it. After all, the Halo 2 version also had dynamic spawns.
But I dont know why people complain about bungie's remake of sanctuary. Yea it wasnt dead on and wasnt EXACTLY the same... But bungie speciallized in creating maps from scratch, not forging. Plus, they gave us room to perfect... They created forge, but they didnt know all of the tricks we know now. Give em credit for their attempt at giving us some decent maps for MP. As for this map. It looks far better than Before. Better use of object placement, and a WAY better jump to the snipe than before. I failed like 50% of the time at it. And the bridges are alot smoother than the previous version. Before, the walk from snipe to the ring was a little bumpy in places... Great job and a big improvement from Asylum
@BOLD: What in the love of sanity did I just read? The developers that know how to use an insanely more complex program to design maps apparently don't know all the tricks to the editor they designed for us? In what strange alternate reality does this make sense? I appreciate your opinion and all, but I now feel dumber for having read that. As for the map... Um, looks like another Sanc remake. At least you used rocks for the floor on the one spot where every one else uses coli walls.
I'm not gonna quote the post with all the pics of the problems in asylum but i lol'ed for a good while. The barely floating piece is not easy to spot in game but you wonder how something like that bumpy ramp never came up in testing.
Same here. I honestly thing maybe Bungie didn't really test these too much- if at all. Their contract sort-of forced two new Halo games after Halo 3 so maybe they just wanted to get a game out the door to move on and focus on the next project. The forged maps they made probably suffered because of this. But this is not the place for this discussion- I hope 343 accepts this as a remake of the MM map they have now. Its just an embarrassment for that (Asylum) to still be up there.
Here's the newest version if anyone wants to download it: Bungie.net : Halo Reach : File Details I've changed some small thing. -The bon areas are a bit bigger now just like in the original. -Changed the ramps leading from the courtyard to the sniper hut. They're now jump-ups but are not as annoying as the Asylum counterpart. <picture> -Switched out some rocks to make it more accurate -Added some rocks here and there to fill up gaps. -Moved some pillars a fraction to make movement a bit smoother.
This is looking good, and I like the additional way up to sniper, will change gameplay and the trapped feeling I can get around the shotgun spawn. Great to see the platforms out of braces, the xl walkways bungie used were a bad choice. But to me the main base structures could look closer to the original sanctuary.
Any Idea when this is going to be finished? A tournament that i'm in is looking for a sanctuary remake. It begins March 3-4 so if you want some more info, I can hook you up.
You can download the current version here: Bungie.net : Halo Reach : File Details I'm not planning on make any more drastic changes so that'll do just fine.
This is the best remake of Sanctuary/Asylum I've played on. It strikes an excellent balance between looking good and being stripped down (more so than Bungie's Asylum, which is uglier despite using a lot more objects). It fixes several of the most substantial issues, and blocks a couple of the lines of sight that make Asylum so problematic if the teams are even slightly mismatched - the latter issue is also alleviated by the dynamic spawns for team slayer. I'm biased since you're a fellow jerk, but I really like this map. It accomplishes what MLG Sanctuary set out to accomplish, and more, while looking better and being splitscreen-compatible.
Hey Overdoziz, I'm the one that is running the tournament that Cheese is talking about. Do you care if I use the maps for FraggedNation? This is completely up to you here, but the maps I'm using in the tournament I would like to have for FraggedNation in general. -KT92