Invasion: Bridge

I'm no pro at invasion, but there are some things I believe might hinder gameplay from what I can see. I'll download it and if I take a look at itI'll come back with some more feedback.

I can't tell clearly from the pictures, but it looks like the 1st phase only has one objective. This tells me that your map probably doesn't utilize fire teams, which are small squads of two that each have defined paths and ways they can attack the neutral ground(s). Also having one objective usually gives the defenders an advantage because the whole team is focused on one spot. I can't say much about the bottom, but the top of the bridge looks to open. A defender with a needle rifle, assuming you place one, could camp where the elite is in the second picture and easily pick off attackers because there isn't anything there to break the large LoS other than the crate.

I cannot say much about the 2nd and 3rd phases, but if an attacker were to spawn in the backfield spawn they would have a view of the entire third phase area. Since it is such a high up area it would give them a great advantage.

EDIT: I'll be taking a look at it before the end of the day.

 

When I play an invasion map, I look for originality. To me, it just looks like you took summit's idea. I think you should come up with something a bit more creative.

 

I don't know why people struggle to understand that bridges across the Alaska-Montana will never work in Invasion? The fact is, forging in such a small restricted space means the forger has to throw important things like proper pathing out of the window. The bridge is always too thin, and ruins any real competitive play.

- Your first phase objectives are way too close to each other, they should be around one whole sprint or two full rolls apart.

- Having a single objective territory for phase 2 completely breaks the idea of fireteam duties and approaches where the objectives should attack. The area will definitely be camped because of its very powerful position

 

I took a look at it fightdude. I know this is your first invasion map, but it is in need of work before it will play well. Note, i'm not trying to bash you map in any way.

First Phase
Before I say anything I want you to know that your map is too small for the regular 6v6. I'd instead make it 4v4, but even that might be stretching it for the last two phases. It seems my guess was correct in you only having one objective; not good. Berb and I already said this, but I'll say it anyway - having only one objective removes the idea of fire teams from the game. Though there are technically two different paths on the bridge, they have plain views of each other which also interferes with the idea of fire teams. There should be lines of sight that focus each fire team against the other while still allowing them to help each other or move towards the middle or one side. From what you have now the game will be like I stated - one large battle where the defenders will have the advantage. I was also correct in saying you have a lack of cover. There were only two crates acting as cover on the bridge. Other than that, nothing. With the addition of the rediculously long sightlines the elites had upon spawning and the two needle rifles graciously descended upon them, it would be near impossible for the spartans to successfully take the objective. The spartans did have a sniper, but this is a bad thing. No power weapons should be given in the first phase. Instead you should replace it with a dmr or two. I also noticed you had mongooses during the first phase. When I noticed these I asked myself "Now what good will these babies serve?" I came to the conclusion that they would not serve any purpose what so ever. If someone dared get in one for some reason they would just be plasma'd. The only advantage I could thing of them being there is you can quickly get to the objective, but the objective was already quite close, so it didn't really help. Another problem I found with the bridge is the center death hole you have. I didn't play a legitamate game, but a player could easily fall of that by accident. I would throw some railing up on that at least. This next thing also regards the size of the map in a way. You have too many pieces used, though I will admit the map looks fantastic aesthetically. You should really save some of the pieces and expand the map to make it larger, making for better gameplay. Next thing I noticed was the lack of killzones behing the elite spawn. This isn't such a big deal, but if you keep moving back you can get on that little hill back there which gives you a view of a lot of the map. Also yours spawns are really messed up. You shouldn't have respawns in invasion, only respawn zones. Here's a guide to help you set that up. Those are all of the bigger problems of phase one, now onto phase two.

Second Phase
This phase, I can honestly tell you, would be the worst of the three. The only way for a spartan(attacker) to get down there was for them to fall and take some damage. This isn't good because upon falling the attacker is instantly thrown into the action due to the objectives being so close. My suggestion would be to add a set of ramps to get down or some other safe way for them to get down there. The next problem was that an attacker could camp at the top of the cliff and pick off elite one by one. You did a good job of covering most of it up with the brace_larges, but the problem is still there. You'll need something else there to break the LoS from the top to the bottom. The other problem is that the objective are way to close to each other. They might as well be combined into one big objective, but this is cause by the map being too small. The only way I could think to fix this would be to, like I said, extend the map over a larger area. The next problem was that you had a warhog place literally five steps from the objective. This is, once again, not good. First of all, the area is too small so like the mongooses it will get plasma'd before the gunner shoots the first bullet. The fact that you have a plasma grenade placed right by the objective doesn't help either. I would completely remove the warthog, and all other vehicles really, from the game because will the map being so small and tight, they wouldn't work. Another thing was that there was only one way up which was by the awkwardly placed gravity lift. This also applies to competetive map, there should always be more than one way into a certain area. The last thing I noticed was with spawning. Since elites are defending they should not have a backfield spawn. It would serve no purpose. Actually it would give them the advantage to be able to spawn behind spartans; not good. That about sums up the big third phase problems, so here comes the final phase.

Third Phase
This one wouldn't be as bad as the second, but still not good. It was, like the others, too small for 6v6. Since there isn't fire team usage on the map it would end up being a large battle in a cramped spot. The cover there looks good, but it's not enough. You will need a lot more since the elites basically have a castle fortress in the back. Another thing that isn't really a problem, but really bugged me - Why bring the core to the elites? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? I would replace that will assault instead, so that it makes more sense as a story. The last thing I have to say about this phase is that it is breakable. In the area where you have the wall made of platforms, there is a spot where you can jump on top of those and keep moving back into the gulch area. That's about it.

My feedbacks always get worse as they go, but that should help. I would recommend reading this and the link I provided earlier as they will be a big help, especially the conceptualization. I'll tell you what others have told me - talk to Berb, FlyingshoeILR, or Phsycoduck because they seem to know what they are talking about, at least moreso than I do. Also play bungie made invasion maps and see how they utilize fire teams into the game.

Thanks for using the Testers Gui..... Oh wait...

EDIT: green is there for quoting purposes.

 

Like said above, when you do remake the map do not make a Montana/Alaska bridge. They do not work and they are always skinny or have other issues. And I mean always.

 

Did Summit work?

 

Don't get me started on Summit. It did in fact have some of these same issues, though to a lesser extent than many maps that have tried this. I don't want to go into a long rant, but ask anyone who has studied invasion about their opinion on Summit and you will get a much different opinion than most have on FH.

Overall, the biggest issue with the bridge is that it will either be

1. Too skinny for enjoyable 6 v. 6 play or

2. You will use most of your budget to make one that is not, leaving you with little for phase 2/3.

Even if you can make a bridge that technically works it will likely not be as fun as some other type of structure because, as a bridge would normally, it Funnels the three separate fire teams down 1 or two paths right next to each other. This problem occurs even on Summit, with the fire team aspect nearly nonexistent phase 1. This is why I urge you away from the bridge, as it is in direct opposition to the fire team aspect of Invasion.

By the way, if you want me to elaborate more on Summit we'll take it to VM's. Don't need to fill up the thread with an argument about another map.

 

No.

If want to know why el trocity, i'll explain in game. ForgeHub isn't the place to criticize the almighty Summit.

--End Discussion--

 

Haha okay then Berbz, thanks, but I think Shoe cleared everything up for me Cheers Shoe.

 

I question if a map would look or play well if it required a ton of the budget to begin with. This is why I really shy from FW. You often need a huge chunk of the budget to make the map functional and that will certainly lead to frame rate issues through out the game play.

The only way I can see making this bridge concept work is if you have multiple levels on the bridge itself, making a wide variety of possible paths. But then it gets very complicated to ensure the proper lateral movement or some type of comparable movement to maintain the game play as it was intended.



Berb... you are looking... pink... lol...