Cornerstone

Lets not do stuff like the previous page. Specifically aimed towards people bitching in a map thread, insulting a map that isn't part of the thread, insulting another member, being a butthole, talking about cowboys, that kind of stuff.


"I was not just talking about the aesthetics in my posts. Yes, the map looks like any other symmetrical 4v4 map out there, and yes, that is part of the problem I have with it. Gameplay-wise, what does this map do to stand out? What is the map's purpose? If everything it does has been done a million times before, then what is the point? Does the map flow in some unique way? Does the map have more interesting gameplay than other maps of it's kind? Does the map's gameplay manage to be somehow superior to other maps in it's category? That was my point before. I will continue to post valid, relevant feedback on maps in the future, I don't expect to be flamed for it again. If you think I'm bitter, you are (once again) mistaken. It's unfortunate that valid feedback is not only now discouraged, but mistaken as bitter, hateful remarks."

Those are easily the most generic questions I have been offered on forge. I had to invent specific applications in an attempt to discern the intent (you can see my... attempt... spoiled,) so to whomever tries to counter something I said with an answerable rhetorical question; specifics are your friend. Otherwise, the vagueness you try to hide behind with bite you in the butt on the way out!


For questions better relating to the quality of a map:

-Was the atmosphere immersive?
-Did you move logically from one area to another without any distracting detours?
-Were any weapons overbearing or obnoxious?
-Was there an area that seemed to get a disproportionate amount of traffic or fighting?
-Were any technical issues prevalent with the map? (i.e. detrimental holes, ramps greatly exceeding 30 degrees, breaks in geometry, etc)
-Can you name anything that stood out as being truly innovative?

Spoiler

Psychoduck, you gave a compliment to gameplay on an anonymous map that I can only describe as a multicultural-trainwreck-crossword-tetris gone wrong, then come in and insult this? Ethos and Pathos fly out the window, and we never really had Logos to start; so much for rhetoric. Quick rehash & sentence by sentence analysis/response following a lazy quote:

Second sentence is fair; generic, boring, bland, etc are not good things.. Though, to be fair, it doesn't look like any other symmetric 4v4 map, it looks like any other good symmetric 4v4 map. What does the map do to stand out? It has the cleanest, most psychologically friendly flow I have seen in a published map fora very long time. The natural movement was wonderful, the fact that anyone attempting to hold down an area would simply die, shad0w roflraping me for the last time on my old lag-ass TV, and all of this with only minor drawbacks (whoever mentioned the prefab ugliness; agreed to infinity and beyond.) The maps purpose? It should be very obvious; to get Bows experience with building something smaller than Timbuktu, what does that have to do with the quality of the map? "If everything has been done a million times before, then what is the point?" *the forger inside me dies* Yes, of course the map flows in a unique way: the entirety of a good flag cap feels like the last leg of an epic BTB solo-run, every teammate seems to spawn far enough away to cause your heart rate to spike (if you are one of those information whores like me,) even cross-map potshots feel very personal. Essentially, it feels like all of the best parts of a BTB game minus the handicap of 13 uncontrollable idiots. Its how a much, much larger 4v4 map than this should feel. I feel the previous statement answers the question following as well; **** yes. Is it superior? Yeah, for the most part, but the vast majority of 4v4 maps in reach are either skyscrapers (those maps that are 10 wide and 12 long, with 7 different levels and 19 death pits) or a victim of over/under-simplification.

EDIT: WALLS-OF-TEXT-FIVE ZOMBIEEEEEEEEE

o/

 

I played a few games on here last night. I'd like to remind you, reflex, that, while I don't know what a bilingual-octopus-banana-toilet is, I did no such thing as insult this map. I merely provided my opinion here, just as i did on the toilet in question. I'm still confused as to how my opinions and my motives here were so utterly mistaken for something they clearly aren't.

Anyways, now that i've played some games on here, I'll provide some more feedback, and I'll even do it by answering the questions you provided Reflex.

-Was the atmosphere immersive?

While there were no glaring flaws that broke the immersion of the map, there was also nothing that made me feel like I was anywhere but in a map on Forge World. there's nothing exactly wrong in this regard, but the map doesn't create much of an identity for itself either.​

-Did you move logically from one area to another without any distracting detours?

Yes, the map's layout works quite well. It was easy enough to get the hang of, and there were no odd discrepencies in movement around the map.​

-Were any weapons overbearing or obnoxious?

No, the weapons on Cornerstone are generally well-placed, and fit the map well.​

-Was there an area that seemed to get a disproportionate amount of traffic or fighting?

No, again, movement arount the map worked out quite well.​

-Were any technical issues prevalent with the map? (i.e. detrimental holes, ramps greatly exceeding 30 degrees, breaks in geometry, etc)

Yes. I noticed three rather substantial drops in framerate while playing, originating from two different areas.​

-Can you name anything that stood out as being truly innovative?

No.​

That does a pretty good job of describing my thoughts on the map. It plays well, but does nothing to stand out to me. This is all I was ever trying to say, and was my entire point from the beginning. I expect not to see anyone else implying that I'm insulting the map, or it's creators, or that I'm somehow bitter in my attitude towards the map. As a member of the Testers' Guild, I critique maps. If you don't want to hear people's opinions on your map, don't post it on a forum. If my first post did indeed come off as "douchey" as Zombie said, then I apologize, but flaming me for stating my opinion is completely unacceptable.

 

Y'know, I completely agree with you on every point. Wasn't insulting you, just attempting to clarify what you said (my epic spoiler'd example was an attempt to point out the problem with your questions, since they can all be accurately answered both pro- AND con- Conerstone.) I do see how that could be taken as offensive, and would like to apologize if you'll accept it. I respect your integrity as a forger, and wasn't trying to call it into question. And honestly, I don't know what a bilingual-octopus-banana-toilet is either, I was talking about a multicultural-trainwreck-crossword-tetris. Though, I did almost use bilingual instead of multicultural...

Still laughing my ass off at that! xD

At the time of the post, I was too ensconced in my own love of subtly (and had just left a paaaiiinfully bad "map" my 7-year-old cousin made) to care about anything else, and like anything with chrstphrbrndededs name on it, this map is subtle. I think your response to the first question sums it beautifully, in fact; sexy gameplay and a solid theme aren't enough to make a map better than the next just because they are the most difficult to achieve, and it does still have to have that gimmick or hook to draw in your attention in order to be a fully rounded map.

Anyway, in an epic list of advice to the creators spurned by a random moment of inspiration partially thanks to psychoduck's ego (used in its actual denotation, the idea/soul/mind/spirit/essence of an individual, not the oft-used connotative insult to a mans hubris,) put a ****ing sexy-ass window at orange that everyone will remember, remove the lift in the middle of the map since there is already two to orange, to fix the lag created by that (and the tiny bits already there that I have yet to see...?,) lower top-orange to compensate for the decreased accessibility, and add a bit more cover to compensate for the decreased power in the position and the possibly dangerous LoS that will open up, throw the rockets up there, place 0-clip snipers in each base (maybe near the crates, if they are still there) and that solves the problem with rockets/sword and makes orange still traversable, add back some of the pretty Viper-asethetics that Bows deleted when he framerate-raged (don't lie, we all know you do it,) and lol at how easy that was, and the fact that I am able to tell you that it probably will work without having the map in front of me.



lolworthy story:

When I woke up, I was all like "I have no internet, so I'll go forge I guess! No interruptions!" Before even selecting the map, I realized that I need to post a thread in the staff forum because I have an important idea. Since then, I have typed over fifteen pages of words spread among four posts and a private message (none of which were related the idea I still need to verbalize,) and have yet to finish any of them but this one, the shortest of the bunch by at least half, which is being posted at about 3:45pm my time.

Those of you wondering, I woke up at about 10:30am.

Forge Hub is a slaughterhouse for free time.

 

These seem quite contradictory. Would anyone care to elaborate?

This seems a bit underwhelming. Making small maps is so much easier I thought bows would do something really great.

 

I'd bet that Bows was psychologically held back by the limitations prevalent in a large map, and so didn't take advantage of the new horizons available in smaller maps.


In response to the framerate, I helped him stress-test it myself for a bit an found nothing 'cept a tiny drop when throwing a grenade and firing a needler into a lift while wearing camo while someone wearing inclement weather and camo took off as well in forge, which might as well cause framerate regardless of the map. So until someone can recreate it for me, I am just going to assume that whatever they are talking about involved particle effects, explosives, bad connections, oh my!

 

The map used to look substantially better. Bows couldn't quite grasp the idea of matchmaking and FH separate versions that Shad0w and I kept stressing lol. Also the aesthetics that were deleted were largely bows' own I do believe.

 

Well, I think shad0w said something about someone rofldeleting everything that he made, so blame him. I could be making that up and not remember, but lets blame him just to be safe.

 

Eh, he just deleted his crates lol

 

This map kinda reminds me of Dyad from H3, mainly the center. Anyways, though nothing groundbreaking is evident, this is a map that deserves some attention.

 

Wow, great work very unique. Great use of color, the map is very well laid out as well good job

 

Looks really clean, nice work guys. I'm going to give it a download and try it out, I'm sure i'll like it. Shadow, you should invite me sometime, we haven't played together in ages! I'd like to show you some of my garbage maps... Haha

Anyways, I look forward to giving this a play-test. If you guys are interested, I'd more then likely like to do a video for it? Let me know, because I'd be more then happy.

Thanks!

 

the only thing throwing me off is that walkway large sticking out. looks way too random. other than that great job. no other complaints.

 

Played it today with the MM testing group and they was wanting to tell you to shrink the map a little. That's their opinoi, though. I thought it was fine and wanted to say this was one of the best maps I've played in a while.

 

As for shrinking the map, (at least for me) I mean that the side positions should be alot closer together. The sides are very wide apart which creates a huge Line of sight across as well as Lines of sight to other points of the map that are narrow and not so reliable.

I feel that this map plays more like an arena so condensing it would make it play much faster and not as campy. I felt that the sides of the map were too popular of choke points. Also, I believe (assume) that the lines of sight will become more useful. Right now, the sides provide good fields of vision, but you can't really get shots at people unless they are closer to the edge. There wasn't enough cross-map shooting for this map to be fast-paced IMO.

Still though the map is nicely forged and the layout is pretty good. Good movement options, good layout of cover (though top green could use less), and good aesthetics. I feel like this would be an awesome 1-Flag map using the two side positions, but only that as of now.

 

By the way... Because Reach has a retarded spawn system, when action gets heated over at snipe spawn, players start spawning directly underneath snipe side. Happened a few times during our game last night. Reach for some reason perceives a certain degree of vertical distance to be greater than horizontal distance on the map. I don't get it. Meh.

 

Putting a Respawn Zone (or two if you're feeling boss) would alleviate this issue. Any questionable vertical spawning can be easily fixed.

 

Yes, I would suggest shortening the bases.

This is just my theory, but the distance from the bases (or possibly wall-to-wall of each base) should be greater than or equal to the distance of the sides. Otherwise, I see the map as a 2-way sym with symmetrical sides and asymmetric bases.