Saying it's not possible without giving it a try seems kinda dumb. Sure, a similar idea has been done in the past with horrible results, but every map has different ideas and different executions. Let's not throw his into the same pile until it's given a test run, shall we?
I gave it a test run yesterday with HWM Sarge, AbleSir Thomas, Oakley HiDef, and some other people who's thoughts on invasion I respect quite a bit. Maybe it's not right to throw it in the same pile as other maps of it's kind, as this one is actually worsse in every way. I don't even want to get into most of it, as I would sound like a **** and be here for a very long time, but I can go into some things. First, your phases are even more disconnected and incoherent than I thought. The map certainly does not make you feel like you're part of a larger battle going on. It feels like your attacking random objectives, randomly thrown together, in random areas across Forge World. Your phase one territories are set up in a way that defenders can hold the territories from completely out of the attackers' line of sight, which causes confusion and frustration, and generally bad gameplay. Phase two and three are, if anything, worse than phase one for numerous, rather obvious reasons. I don't want to elaborate any more, as I've given this map and thread enough of my time already, but I can certainly say that my initial suspicions have been proven correct. Also, as the misconception seems to have been made; this is not me being a ****. This is me going out of my way to help you understand why your map is broken.
Thank you for testing my map and providing me with feedback. I am not sure why the attackers couldn't see the territories- the upper half of the lower territory is easily approachable from the adjacent platform as well as the staircase, and it is very vulnerable from the high middle platform. If a spartan made it to the coliseum floor part of that lower territory but none of the other seven spartans were able to flush out elites in the upper part, the objective would not be captured, as I had intended. You say that this causes confusion and frustration, but the territories are clearly, visibly multilevel. I did not expect for a second that it was going to be considered confusing- I thought that it would be a simple thing that would keep both teams on their toes.The same thing goes for the other territory, but its top has a slight height advantage so that there would be a slightly different choice in choosing a territory- it's slightly harder for either team to occupy. By "larger battle" in my previous post I explained clearly that it was simply larger than an invasion match in which players could walk from one phase to the other, because those posts concerned that. I honestly can't figure out what you mean by "random objectives, randomly thrown together, in random areas across forge world". The objectives are territories, core and bomb. All of them are strategically, logically placed in my opinion, not simply with respect to their distance from spawns, but how the area around them affects player movement, considering possible weapons, vehicles, and everything else that any forger would consider when making a non-random map. Perhaps by random you mean that there is nothing to tell you a story of a campaign style mission? As for random areas across FW, they are actually the playable spaces that are used for other maps, so I have no idea what you're trying to say there either. Are you asking why the satellite to be destroyed isn't on the island, or why the core isn't by the covenant spawns, or... I'm at a loss. The other phases are worse for obvious reasons- well if it's the scale of the phases, I guess for some reason Invasion cannot be played on the same scale as asymmetric BTB objective games, because the 2nd phase is no bigger than Paradiso. I would prefer it if you did elaborate on this and more, but I understand how you've spent too much time on this. Even if someone else thought that the map wasn't exactly as bad as you thought it was, it is apparent to me that no one will enjoy this map. As I had acknowledged as a possibility in my first post, I have learned from forgers who have tested this map that it is broken, and I will not try to get another test. I had fun while I was forging it, though, so I am not dissapointed that it didn't work out and that I will abandon it.
Wow, I feel like this whole thing has gotten a bit out of hand. I think the arguments presented by psychoduck are valid as I was with him to give the map a flythrough. The map clearly does not conform to standard invasion layouts and thus will be very very hard to get right. The reason for this is because the larger your map, the less control you have over players. In a map of this scale players can basically free roam around the map. While this may sound good it brings a ton of problems 1. Getting to an objective may take five minutes or a matter of seconds depending on numerous factors 2. large spaces mean there wont be much cover so either you go for long distances without seeing anyone or you get engaged from way off in the distance 3.transitions are awkward, without vehicles you are too slow (assuming they are gone or destroyed), and teleporters are campable Because of this gameplay will vary tremendously from game to game. There will so many inconsistencies that even if you fix all problems present in a particular test more will appear. In the end you need to find a way to have your map guide the players a bit more and have a more defined play space with more regular engagement patterns. This can feasibly be possible on a map the size of forgeworld but you would need about ten times the given budget and a larger player count to fill the empty spaces. Hopefully we havent discouraged you from forging. The main intent behind our comments was to warn you against making such a large map because there are so many issues with it (that no forger can overcome). This of course all applies to reach. Perhaps you will have a chance to flesh out your ideas come Halo 4
Thank you for articulate feedback. I wish that I understood the other posts as well as I understand yours. You've given me a much better idea of why invasion maps are the way that they are. Allowing players to roam freely was a characteristic of BTB objective that I wanted to project on an invasion map, but I see now that the third phase took that to an extreme. It seems almost a bit like a puzzle compared to other phases, and if one side or the other isn't constantly engaged in getting back to assisting in making progress, the game would be slow and stale. This could happen if there is the slightest difference in skill level between teams. For point #1, I figured that if one team couldn't reach an objective it would be because they were playing as if it were slayer or the other team was simply better, because the difference between vehicle and player speed does not amount to a difference in 20 sec for spawn to halfway points in any phase. For #2, I understand, but just like with any BTB map it's possible to get used to the map and know where enemies are likely to fire from. As for #3, I'm not sure if you're talking about teleporters in my map or just in general, because the transition teleporters cannot be reached by spartans in time, and the third phase teleporter would not be helpful to the elites at all- it's best for them to defend it, and not by crouching around a corner with a shotgun, that's for sure. I thought that more variety in engagement patterns would make the game better, but if Psychoduck's test for P2/3 was such a disaster (I would love to know how) then I haven't been able to predict how my map would play out to any extent. I haven't been discouraged from forging in the sense that I never had a goal to become a "better forger"; I just wanted to see if this map would work out. This was my first map and I never thought about trying something else, because everything else has been done well by you guys already.
I'm glad we've all finally reached an understanding then. Think of this attempt as a learning experience and do better next time. I look forward to seeing what you cook up next. Also, keep listening to awesome classic rock.