Do you think that AR-Magnum starts would be better for BTB?

If anything is shitty, it's starting with shitty weapons (Pistol, AR) on a huge map. Have fun spawning on Hemorrhage out in the open with your AR while the other team has all the vehicles.
The Reach BTB maps are mostly designed with the DMR in mind. Spire, Paradiso and Boneyard have lots and lots of cover making the DMR less powerful. Hemorrhage -being a remake of a Halo 1 map- is just awful with the DMR (and also with AR starts, by the way) because it's not designed with a weapon with such range in mind.

 

Being on foot on a huge map without an adequate range weapon is obnoxious and extremely un-fun (except for the people zipping around in vehicles and camping on high ground with snipers and DMRs - they enjoy the free kills against players who can't even fight back).

In short, no. If they take the DMR out of BTB, I'll be done with the playlist.

 

Absolutely not. Adding AR's and magnum starts to any playlist automatically makes it at least 10x worse. There's nothing fun about encountering groups of people who can kill you with 0 skill just by spraying.

Just, no.

 

And this is simply not true. The Halo 3 BTB playlist always gave you BR starts - how is that any different than DMR in Reach? Did you have much success crossing the middle of Standoff or hanging around in the long, open hallways of Rat's Nest when BR fire would chew you up from all angles?

If there is more hiding in Reach, the probable reason isn't DMR starts but rather annoying things like the sniper + camo combination and the severely overpowered banshee. And reticule bloom makes it worse because it's harder to fight back against snipers even once you've spotted them. Changing to AR/pistol starts isn't going to make things better - it will simply give MORE power to what are already the worst aspects of BTB.

 

If anything, BTB would be the worst playlist for these weapon starts (or MLG if, in some weird reality, the AR was approved) because the team with better map control would simply keep the other team in their spawn from a far distance while the spawning team has nothing to defend themselves with; in smaller gametypes at least you have SOME chance that ARs MAY help you due to the more enclosed maps.

 

I do think the DMR should have a 2x scope instead of a 3x one.

 

No. horrible idea. the dmr can at least do some long distance damage against vehicles. you're asking for a ton of spawn killing

AR/Mag starts are for 4v4, 2v2, rumble pit, objective. not for big team maps with huge gigantically long lines of sight. that's when you NEED the dmr

however, I would like DMR/Mag starts in playlists other than swat, but that's probably not going to happen either.

Also, I'd like the AR in infection. its fun

 

This.

Is the reason Reach is ruined.

Maybe it's just me, but this ALWAYS happens on Draw the Line's Precipice.

 

BTB have big maps we need longer range weapons DMR has a slower kill time the longer the distance(with bloom) past medium range so further you are away the safer you are so it's not really a problem(unless your out in the open which is your fault) plus AR/Pistol means only long range you spawn with is a Pistol and that has very low ammo, So people will spawn waste all the pistol ammo run into each other with AR's then it would be a very awkward game.

Pro tipon't run out in the open I don't mean camp a corner of the map I mean stay a safe distance from any cover so if anyone shoots you across the map just takes a second to hide and he will most likely not chase you because of the distance.

 

If the DMR were not a starting weapon in BTB it would become a power weapon which I'm sure you want even less than to have it as a starting weapon.

To whoever said BTB should be DMR/Magnum starts, the AR is quite useful in some situations.

 

Agreed. The AR is not just a no skill weapon. Yes, while you can spray and pray and get lucky kills, it also takes skill to know when it's the right moment to pull it out and rush your opponent. Suppression fire, and close-range combat are a few uses it has. But i agree it should definitely not be in BTB because vehicles would dominate. I just hate it when people say the AR is useless.

 

I agree with you there, I come across people who say that the AR is noobish, yet I can trash people with it 95% of the time outside of long range fighting, AND I aim, i don't spray and pray unless their in my face. Onto the actual topic, unless it was ZB BTB, then AR/Magnum starts wouldn't work, but I don't play BTB because of the overused DMR, so it doesn't effect me whatsoever

 

You can't have short-mid range weapon starts on a long range map. It's a first person shooter... not Pee Wee's Big Adventure. The last thing people want is to wait a minute to hike it before anyone is within effective range. Also, once one side has power weapons... the game is pretty much over... because they can stay out of your effective range and just pick you off.

 

This.

Does anyone remember AR starts on Valhalla? It became impossible to leave your base because the AR was useless. There were like 3 BRs in the base and everyone else had to rush out into the open while the people at Spartan Laser BR'd anyone that got close.

Non-DMR starts ruins gameplay on most BTB maps because there is a point at which one entire team gets DMRs and one needs to rely on waiting for/finding them for every respawn to simply get some chance of fending off the other team that has map control.


Also, people defending skill behind the AR: there is a skill to EVERY gun in the game, but the degree of the skill varies greatly. As long as there is some downside to using a gun, there is a skill associated with the use of that gun. Ex: shotguns take skill because you need to put yourself in a closed area, refrain from using it at long distances, and use judgement to know when it will be a 1-shot-kill or not. Rockets take skill because you need to know how to not to blow yourself up.


Even if there was something as absurd as a tactical nuke weapon that you pick up, blindly press RT, and it instantly kills every opponent in the game + deducts points for every opponent that is already dead, it would take skill because getting to that weapon spawn takes skill. There might not be skill in using the weapon, but there is skill in obtaining it. So the fact that a gun like the AR takes some skill does not justify where it should contribute to gameplay and if it should be the skill weapon of Halo.


However, the precision weapons like the DMR take the most skill due to the fact that they require the most out of the user to yield the most deadly results. A DMR expert needs to excel at movement (strafing, jumping, etc...) and retaining near-perfect accuracy at the same time. ARs require less of an expert in many fields to operate successfully. The commonly used term "skill gap" refers to the noticeable difference between the results of different skill levels with the same gun: it is easily said and known everywhere that the DMR has the biggest skill gap aka there is a huge difference between DMR noobs and DMR pros and it takes a lot more skill, technique, and practice to become an expert with the DMR than it does with any other weapon.

 

Half the point of BTB is the wide open area's avalible for vehicle driving, with the addition of DMR's this ruins it. It turns into a mini sniper, and open area's become a no-man's land. I think there should be 1 or 2 at the start at each base, so there is some obvious access, but overall, I think the DMR's should be left for mid sized maps. DMR's made Highlands unplayable, and Hemorage is awful due to it.

 

Interesting how 9 out of 10 people who plead for AR starts are people who are bad at the game.
Not judging, just an observation.

 

I hope your not including me, I said it would ruin gameplay, plus I don't play BTB.

 

Na, you're safe.

 

Fixed that for you.

I really, seriously don't understand the mentality of people who want to be stranded in a giant map with a pea shooter. Why do you want to be badly outclassed by the vehicles, snipers, and the few lucky people who got their hands on the DMRs and needle rifles? I don't even like spawning away from the bases on Hemorrhage WITH a DMR; without one, I think I'd just stand there until someone killed me so I could get a better spawn. And considering DMRs are the most effective anti-vehicle weapon aside from the power weapons, I'd really hate to see the levels of banshee rape on The Spire, Renegade and Paradiso/Utopie with no DMRs to counteract them.