Respawning help please

the red dots are your spawns, the blue and yellow squares are respawn zones.
Don't set them to any teams and your spawning should work fairly good for slayer.

If you are going to add objective gametypes to your map then you'll need to add anti respawn zones to each side of the map.

(This is my opinion on symmetrical map spawning, anyone is free to argument it)

I know this isn't the full explanation u wanted but its late and i'm to tired to go in-depth on the whole system.

quick one:
spawn point = spawn location
Spawn location get influenced in a good way to make it a preferable spawn point or in a bad way to avoid spawning there.

your death,grenades exploding, teammates death and enemy team members = negative influences

team mates, locations 'far' from your death, areas where no combat is = positive influences.

Respawn zones extend and link spawn points and areas so that when u die at spawn point 1, you dont spawn at spawn point 2 but at spawn point 4 which is not linked with the one you died or is near the location u died.

 

(not 100% sure about this) But if you place enough respawn points inside your respawn zones you shouldn't have any problems with people spawning off the map.

You don't have to use only 4 spawn zones like i did, you can use multiple aslong as you can 'connect' the areas you want, aka if people die on the side of your base, they wont spawn in your base; make sure those are connected.

And its always best to use spawn points, that way you can place them in locations that prevent being shot at right away or behind a corner out of a main area or not right on top of a power weapon.
My last map i used 84 spawn points spread out over the map (42 on each side, avoided placing any in the middle).
I took that number of spawn points from H3's The Pit.

~Kevin (yes me too)

 

@Exile - If you cover every Respawn Point on the map with one or more neutral Respawn Zones, then you have not accomplished anything and may as well take every Respawn Zone off the map. And for objective games, using Anti Respawn Zones do not prohibit a player from spawning at their enemy's objective/base.

The Respawn Zones do NOT communicate what is happening within them or who is within them to the Respawn Points. Bungie has made excruciatingly clear, and simple tests have confirmed, that such a model is simply a myth. I know you will come across people here at FH saying this is how they work, but they are wrong. Unfortunately, we cannot stop them from saying things that are wrong.

@Kevdot - To understand how Respawn Zones and Respawn Points work, see the tutorials at Forging Reach. Also, look at Bungie maps. Notice that they split the map in half with one red Respawn Zone and one blue Respawn zone. That should say everything.

Let the dynamic influencers work as they are intended. DO NOT use Weak Respawn Zones or Anti Respawn Zones unless you know what you are doing, because they alter the spawn engine algorithms heavily.

Read the tutorials and they will describe the various dynamic influencers. Also, yes you need Respawn Points to respawn. The spawn engine spawns players "on a point". Which point it chooses is based upon weights that it calculates. Respawn Zones apply such a strong (extremely heavy) weight on Respawn Points within it that a team MUST respawn on one of them. No other Respawn Points will have a weight that can compete. This is why the Respawn Zone is said to define WHERE a team may respawn. It defines a team's respawn region.

Weak Respawn Zones apply a positive weight a little more than the proximity of an ally next to a Respawn Point. Anti Respawn Zones apply a negative weight of the Weak Respawn Zone. The problem these present is that they never change with game time dynamics. You really have to know what you are doing to use them effectively.

Going back to the original problem, spawning behind a player, the spawn engine uses dynamic influencers to determine where to spawn. If there is an opponent present at a spawn point (in front of the spawn point) then their proximity influencer (a dynamic influencer) adds a negative weight to the Respawn Point, making less likely that they will spawn there. If you have an Anti Respawn Zone covering alternate Respawn Points, the spawn engine probably not be able to spawn the spawning player in the Anti Respawn Zone, because it applies a more negative weight than the enemy proximity influencer does.

The death influencer is the strongest by far. If the map is small enough (and I saw this happen repeatedly on Anchor 9, which I did not think was very small at all), you can force player to spawn along the edges of the map in predictable ways by killing players in the middle and along the opposite side of the map. you can manipulate the spawn engine and create spawn trapping scenarios easily. There is nothing you can do about this using Respawn Zones, Anti Respawn Zones, or Weak Respawn Zones. They won't help.

My GT is online quite a bit during the day as my wife watches NETFLIX, but at night I can be on (I live in Hawaii) and if I am and you send me a request I will try to forge with you and discuss in greater detail.

 

My own map has spawns that are layed out similarly to this. I'm using team respawns in the corners and set a weak repawn sone around those specific team spawns. The weak respawn zones (im not 100% sure about this) make respawning in safe corner areas happen more frequently, and bare neutral spawn points near the middle mostly prevent spawn camping. The spawn system I have works extremly well with my map allowing for mostly predictable spawning, but it will move players behind and enemy that is spawn camping. I hope this is of use.

 

@firedune, I looked at your map. You know you can analyze a map and from that analysis predict exactly how spawning will behave. That is what I did with your map.

Playing one flag, the red (defender) went to the blue side and killed the blue player. The blue player (predictably) spawned on the red side of the map, making it much easier for him to get to the objective. I think most people would agree that this is not good.

What I would do to fix this is:
1) Get rid of the Weak Respawn Zones.
2) provide Respawn Points down below in the bases.
3) Divide the map in half using only two Respawn Zones, one blue and one red. This forces the two teams to spawn on their half of the map only.
4) provide more cover for those spawn points in the open if you can, or move them slightly so that they can have more cover.

 

@green

I used this system on my latest map Deja Vu (V2 coming soon).
Its a Halo 3 Pit inspired map that uses the same spawn system.
Ofcourse i tested different ways to get the spawn system to work.
First i tried it the way you said, without respawn zones and it didn't work, people spawned way to close to the location of their death or near an enemy.
So i added the 2 respawn zones at the top and the bottem of my paint, which worked better but it was very easy to spawn trap people when it was set to teams and on neutral people still spawned in the wrong locations, people died on the bridge to sword room and would respawn right at the sniper tower with a straight sight at their oneshot enemy.
Then i added the left and right one and it worked out alot better.

Thing is, you can devide a map in 2, but if one team decides to control the left side instead of the middle or the bottem side (enemy) base, then you end up spawn trapping the other team on the lower right of their own side.
This system allows side switching like The Pit did on H3 and it was a glorious map because of it to play slayer on.

Ofcourse this wont work for objective games, (thats why my map doesn't have objective setting yet (V3 coming))
But i did state in my original post that this was for slayer.

I don't know for sure if respawn zones communicate across their area, i havn't tested that, i just assumed they did.
But they did help me to improve the spawn system on my map.
You do need parts of the map that don't have a respawn zone tho, not just divide the map in 4 squares.

My original reply was longer and more detailed but the server issues reset it when i pressed submit :|

 

If you show me a film clip and the map that causes this, I can explain what is happening. The death influencer is a very strong influencer and to over come it would require either a Respawn Zone or other death influencers or a player's weapon line of sight in other parts of the map. You cannot say that the game engine is failing to drive players away from their point of death. The engine is seeing another influencer that you are not aware of.

When you understand how the spawn engine works, you can figure out how to spawn trap when Weak and Anti zones are used. You cannot always do it, but they make it easier in many cases.

I would really like to see this map.

 

Hey green, i'd like to tell you that you know what's going on with these spawn systems, and you do. However, i'm pretty sure you didn't really look at my map vey clearly though. The "bases" down below are not for spawning. I know it sounds weird, but it's more of a flag "room", thus players spawning there would not be desireable. I have improved the map in my latest version (soon to be posted), but I have left the spawn system alone. Players spawn in sheltered corners (2 for each side), still covered by the weak respawn zones with individual spawn points inside of them, and will usually spawn there. However based on tests of my own, players will usually be moved to alternate, frequently neuteral spawn points placed around the middle of the map if too many enemies are present arount the spawn corners. This gives the team an oppurtunity to take the other team from behind, or flank them. It works very well during all gametypes, and I haven't had many complaints. This however is just my theory. It could be that it's unusually small with players spawning everywhere, but It seems that it increases the probability of players spawning at points in said weak respawn zones. I've also used this setup in another of my maps, CSS cleansing wind, and so far, it works as advertised.

 

Yes, I did look at your map quite well. I would have no way of knowing you did not want players to spawn in the flag room; and my suggestion was based upon the cover that the room provided.

Yes, it works for the games you have played. But I did demonstrate that it can fail rather easily. In the end, if you do not use Respawn Zones, but rely on Weak Respawn Zones, your map is broken for objectives, because it leaves the opportunity for a player to spawn on the enemy side right near the flag. This is clearly a broken scenario for any map, even if you never see it in your tests.

It's so easy to use Respawn Zones, I don't understand why you chose not to. But I have suggested all that I can offer for this map.

 

Personally, I agree that it fails for objective. I've removed objectives (though I believe I forgot to delete the leftovers!) and it's more-or-less slayer map now. I'll look into the respawn zones instead of weak, but i'm still experimenting with weak (it does work though)