Just a heads up, this is a long ass post. If you're interested in helping me out with my current problem at hand, skip to the second half of the post. As the title says, I don't feel the drive to Forge anymore. Anyone else know what I mean? Lately, (or since Halo Reach was released, rather) I haven't felt the urge to craft playspaces like I did in Halo 3. Back then, I invest well over 75% of my time playing Halo 3 to forging, whether it be for making legitimate attempts at competitive maps or for just dicking about in my spare time. Regardless, I had a constant thirst to build things, like a child who received a first set of LEGOS on Christmas Day. The drive to create and the ideas spinning in my head never ceased. Then came Reach. Like most, I was ecstatic. I couldn't wait to get my hands on the new Forge mechanics and get a taste of Forge World. When I did though, all that excitement just died. My thoughts on why seem to change every so often. At first I thought it was because of the lack of any flat area similar to Sandbox's middle tier, and then I started thinking it was the gunmetal grey color palette. After that, I thought it was the game mechanics and how much has changed since Halo 3, especially along the lines of Big Team Battle. It got to the point where I started blaming the new tools like Phasing Objects and Rotation Snaps. Now I'm thinking, maybe my inability to want to actually invest heaps of time in constructing battlegrounds has to do with myself. Instead of feeling like I'm playing a game and enjoying myself when I Forge, I feel like I'm working. I don't get the sense of satisfaction I used to after spending hours aligning a few groups of pieces using Ghost- and Geo-merging and then having all that work pay off in the end when the map becomes playable, followed by being released to the public. When I finish constructing an area I think I'm satisfied with, then walk through it and take a closer look, I start doubting myself and end up tearing it down and starting over. Most of my time in Forge is me starting over after spending three hours on a small area of the map, trying to make every bit of flooring is smooth and all the walls and things are aligned properly. I didn't feel like that was the most necessary thing for a map in Halo 3. Some parts could be rough, so long as the map demonstrated good gameplay with hints of ingenuity. Now, I feel like everything needs to be perfect, like the bar for a good map now is far beyond my grasp or patience. Can anyone tell me whats wrong with me? Will this lack of will to create things pass after a while? Can any of the folks that Forge a hefty amount in Reach tell me what it is that makes them Forge so much and enjoy it? ------------------- Now, onto my second problem. Since my account turned Silver and I won't have an opportunity to renew my subscription all that soon, I decided to get back in the saddle, reluctantly, and try my hand at Forging in Reach for the umpteenth time. Since I only enjoy playing one group of settings in Halo Reach, Team Classic playlist settings, I set my sights toward making a map built with that in mind. I spent a heap of time building and rebuilding this map, but after I finally got to the point where the whole playspace has come into shape with a layout I thought I was satisfied with, I hit a dead end. I felt like the map is missing something, that it lacked character. I was a second away from tearing it all down except for the area I am most satisfied with and going from there. However, I stopped myself last minute and decided that I should go for some outside help in the matter. This is the farthest I've gotten in crafting a map in a very long time and a part of me doesn't want to let it go because of that. I've doubted this community in the past and used to consider it very, very ****. Truth it, there are some very capable people here who are a lot more creative, talented, and enjoy Forging a lot more than I do. I have a few pics of the map and I want to ask you guys what I should do with it at this point. Should I push myself toward finishing it? Should I just scrap it and give up? Should I remove parts of it and rebuild or refine them? I'm honestly lost right now in what to do. I apologize in advance for the ELITE CELL PHONE CAMERA PHOTOGRAPHY, but I used a 48 hour and tried uploading **** to my File Share but alas, I only got this message. 5 Star Job, Microsoft/Bungie. 10/10 would rage again. Well, that's all I have for now. I'd appreciate any efforts to help me out, regardless whether they're successful or not. If anyone wants an in depth look at it, I recently used a forty-eight hour, so add me before its up to take a look.
The layout looks pretty good, and though it is visually rather typical I'm seeing a few nice aesthetic flourishes in it. For example, the glassy structure formed by a Platform Y, two Block 3x3, Shorts, and two pieces I can't identify. (Near the top of a Brace, Large ramp, opposite the two Windows). Is it your aesthetics that are troubling you? If so, I'd recommend just thinking of a theme. Any theme at all -- a particular shade of grey, a pattern of glass, a geometric shape or figure... And see how you can transform your map to match it visually, without compromising the gameplay.
I just started working on the aesthetics before I stopped and went to create this post. You're looking at what I consider a skeleton right now. There really isn't a theme for this map, but from the get go I wanted to make something of a spiritual successor to Turf. Something that had a good mix of long and mid range fighting with a vehicle on a quick respawn to switch things up for four-vs-four but had the capability of playing fast paced six-vs-six. Whats really eating at me is the fact that I just don't feel satisfied with it, or anything I build for that matter. The layout looks, to me, that it could end up playing rather well for what I have in mind, but the bar I've set for myself is so unrealistically high. It's usually around the time I get to mapping out a rough draft of the weapon layout in my head and applying aesthetics and small changes. I'll just lose interest, shelve it, and never come back. Thing is though, this is the farthest I've gotten in terms of making a map in a little over three months and I would really like to see it finished. I just want a some outside opinions on whether I should put forth the effort or not. It also doesn't help that I'm making this with Team Classic in mind and it's more of a niche gametype compared to most. It also doesn't help I'm putting Hologram and Armor Lock on this map either, so most people who are die-hard Classic players would be a little turned off by it, despite the fact I think of them as power ups in this sense. Speaking of weapons, right now, I only have Hologram and a Spartan Laser on the map right now. Laser spawns on a ledge by the Lift and Hologram spawns in the base with the Y Platform window, directly behind it to be precise. I don't want to place a Sniper Rifle or Rockets on this map either. I am going to put at least one Warthog at ~30 second respawn but I'm unsure which one right now.
If you find that the longer you look at what you have done, the more you pick it apart, then it's a clear sign that you need to plan your design/theme on a larger scale. Try to focus on more substantial (and hopefully intricate) structures. If they are unique, look great and support some interesting strategies, then i'd say your on a far better track than thinking room-by-room.
It reminds me of that one map you made floating that had that cool rock garden. I liked that one better than this. Hell, I loved that map, whatever happened to it?
It seems like youre being way to hard on yourself. I'll start on and scrap 5 or 6 designs before I keep one and finish it. We all do that to differing degrees. One suggestion you might try is getting the map youre currently working on to the point of testing with a group of forgers and get as much feedback from them as possible. They will give you suggestions to improve everything from structural design to aesthetics and better spawning techniques. That will build your confidence in your own abilities. And if you really want to feel better about your maps, join Broccoliepie in some of his test sessions.... Jk Broc. heart you ;p
You know I forged a map, and people that played it tell me it isn't good enough for MM because it is too open. But I look at how people love Boardwalk, which is way open. So I have lost the drive to forge as well. People like open maps, but i am constantly told that my maps are not MM because they are too open, so I just give up. It is like people are always telling me their opinion about why my map isn't good enough, so I ask myself why bother? Ya, I sort of feel that way too.
This is a little off-topic or tangential, but I have two things to say about that. One is that Boardwalk is deceptively open. It's open if you just run straight up the middle section of the map, but there's a reason nobody does that. The outer areas, the underneath, and the sniper rooms on the second level at each end of the map are all much less open, with plentiful cover and smartly-integrated twists and turns to break up lines of sight so that it's not just people firing shots at each other across great distances. (Unless of course jet pack is involved, but that's another story. Jet pack does bad things to Boardwalk.) To me Boardwalk feels much more open than it actually plays. It is still a range weapon map, no question - the shotguns and ARs are only useful in the 2nd level rooms, and are way underpowered everywhere else compared to DMRs or even pistols. But it's not my idea of a map that is TOO open. The other is that you have to be careful about listening to any one person's opinion of your map designs. People here talk about maps like they are authorities or somehow objective observers; but the truth is, few of us are anything like authorities (experienced amateurs at best, in most cases), and because we play Halo a lot our observations are extremely subjective based on what we personally like in a map. A guy who prefers shotgun and sword camping action over DMR duels will always tell you your map is too open, unless it's a series of closets connected by tiny hallways. And a guy who does MLG team shooting has a very specific idea of how much cover there should be (very limited, but strategically sprinkled around). Play style and personal preference factors very strongly into what people might say about your map. Now, it's still possible that it is way too open - but I'd wait to hear that from several people before you really start taking it all that seriously. There aren't many people I trust to be objective and distanced enough to be useful critics on a wide variety of maps. They're looking for you to live up to an ideal that they have, which may not be the only possible standard to use in making a good map. Keep it in mind. Don't ignore what they say, but take it with a grain of salt.
If at all possible, scobra and mr green, you guys should join us this coming tuesday and bring your maps. Getting an outside opinion may really help. Like nutduster said you can't trust any ONE persons opinion. How about six new opinions? Check for our thread in the customs lobby. TGN for this coming tuesday.
"Should I push myself toward finishing it? Should I just scrap it and give up? Should I remove parts of it and rebuild or refine them? I'm honestly lost right now in what to do." First, don't push yourself to forge a map- You shouldn't have to, especially if you don't know where you're going with it. (I'm having the same problem.) Second, scrapping it might be a good idea, giving up is not. It all depends on how much you like the layout you have now. Question: Do you like any certain aspects of the map? If so, I recommend using those aspects in a new map, if you were to start fresh. Take little ideas and slowly build them up. I also think you should look at some other maps or architecture to get some inspiration. Sometimes you'll come across some pretty cool things and then BAM you'll get an idea and from there is will just flow. Good luck.
Hmm...tc, I think it might be because you're still forging with H3 ideals. No longer can a map which is merely functional be considered all that great. Not saying your maps or ideas are only that, but from what I can see of your posted one, it does seem a little...pedestrian? I dunno. I don't mean that at all in any kind of bad way, but with the ability to utilize the massive space of FW and much decreased "fighting the system" as in H3, Reach maps demand that much more thought and originality to stand out. I've seen maps which had concept art done for them. Of course, I didn't forge in H3 all that much, but with greater tools comes greater expectations and greater creations.
I was referring to people in the BluePrint group, which are an authority unto themselves, in that they are a major gateway to get your map into MM. I am not saying they are wrong. I have admitted that I could learn from them. But it totally confuses me how they say that my map is too open, when compared with boardwalk it clearly is not. i have to take what they say seriously if I want them to move my map further along to MM consideration. I can't just take what they say with a grain of salt. And understand, boardwalk is a favorite among a good segment of the population. The map is visitation if you want to see for yourself and tell me if I am wrong for being confused by this disparity. If you could point something out to me that would make the difference, I would be engaged again. But I am so discouraged, I have also given up. Perhaps if Scobra cannot be saved, I can???