For awhile I thought I had spawns down, most of my maps had no trouble and I understood placement well enough to avoid people spawning in other's lines of sight. Then came my one flag map where, try as I might, I can't keep guys from spawning wherever the game wanted them to go. I had a weak spawn zone and an anti spawn zone on each side of the map, which worked alright but not all the time. This is when I realized I knew little about these strange, mystical parts, which determined the fate of almost every game. And as my next map also was nearing spawn placement, I knew I had to act. So I ask you Forge Hub, enlighten me on the complex workings of spawn zones, both regular ones and CTF flag respawn zones and flag respawn away zones, which I also cannot comprehend. Lead me on this journey to spawn perfection. Thank you ahead of time, my testers, maps, and I will all appreciate this help! -Flying Shoe ILR
What worked really well for me in *cough*Aegis*cough* was that I made team spawns in the bases show up in every gametype, and set nuetral spawns to only show up in slayer gametypes, so no spawning right next to the flag. What you should also do is make overlapping spawnzones in corners of hallways, just extend the spawn zone a little past the doorway to keep people from spawning in a room about to be entered by a whole team.
It's really not all that complex. As stated on b.net somewhere: A Respawn Zone (or commonly, hard respawn zone) object designates the area inside of which players will spawn. Respawn zones honor team assignments, and neutral zones will affect all players. Players will not spawn outside of a Respawn Zone, period. (for all intents and purposes) -Summary: I will always spawn here. A Weak Respawn Zone object designates a preferred area for the player to spawn in. The game's respawn engine will choose to spawn players inside this area over other places, but if it's not safe players can spawn elsewhere. Weak Respawn Zones honor team assignments, neutral zones affect all players. -Summary: I like to spawn here. An Anti Respawn Zone designates an area for the spawn system to avoid. Players will not spawn inside this area unless there's no other safe place. Anti Respawn Zones honor team assignments, neutral zones affect all players. -Summary: I don't like to spawn here. On to gametype-specific zones: CTF respawn zones and flag-away zones are not objects, but labels that you can give to respawn zone (hard, weak, anti) objects. The CTF_res_zone label means that that particular object will be used in CTF, specifically when the flag is at home. the CTF_res_zone_away label is used specifically when the flag is away. Assault has similar labels that work in the same way.
I recommend this guide to start (it helped me): http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-reach-forge-discussion/118231-stevo-spawning-method.html For the CTF specific labels: ctf = spawn zone active during CTF ctf_res_zone = spawn zone active when team flag is at home ctf_res_zone_away = spawn zone active when team flag is away I believe the trick is that when the flag is away all zones labeled as ctf_res_zone are no longer active. When the flag is home all zones labeled as ctf_res_zone_away are no longer active. Spawn zones labeled as ctf are always active during a CTF game. I don't know if this helps any.
This is starting to help, though I have heard a lot about overlapping zones in maps that really improve spawns (I specifically heard this in the review for the TDNT map Turnpike.) Also, there have been no issues with teams spawning too near the flag, rather too far away for attackers when trying to get the flag and defense too far away when flag is away, though my new understanding of CTF flag respawn zones clears this up some (I was just setting those around the flag in a small circle because I didn't know what to do before.) I'm guessing I shouldn't use hard spawn zones in most situations because of their limiting effect on spawns. I'll keep working on this in my next two maps, which should help, but I would still like to know more about layering.
Please... don't use the Stevo spawning guide as a reference. I know it looks pretty and he's got a shiny red name, but it's confusing and filled with misinformation. First off: players cannot spawn outside of a Hard Respawn Zone. Period. This is what's stated in the official article on b.net and in all my testing of all my maps, has always proven true. Second: Weak and Anti zones have different properties depending on whether they're inside a Hard respawn zone or not.Outside a Hard respawn zone, Weak zones DO NOT add with other Weak zones. "Weak + Weak" is not "more positive" than a single Weak zone. The same is true for Anti zones. However, Weak and Anti zones DO cancel each other out. Inside a Hard Respawn zone, Weak zones DO add with other Weak zones, in the way one would expect. "Weak + Weak" is stronger than a single Weak zone. Same with Anti zones. Weak and Anti zones DO cancel each other out. A good zoning practice for most maps (i.e. the simplest and most effective) is to place a team-specific Hard respawn zone over that team's half of the map. This guarantees that players will never spawn in the other team's base, period. Then, simply place a team-specific Weak zone over the main base area to make it the preferred spawn location. That's it. You're done. No need for "complex calculations" or five hundred overlapped zones.
But do you always want to spawn on your side? It is good usually, but say during a flag game you can't get even close to your team while they capture the flag. Now do you just run hopelessly for the flag with little chance of catching up to them before they are attacked? I've been messing around with a combination of a weak spawn zone and an anti spawn zone for the opposite team on each side of the map so that spawning on the other side is unlikely but not impossible if needed. I see that overlapping is only something to think about if I use hard spawns, and maybe not then, but I wonder if hard spawns will mess up the game.
Whether or not you use hard spawn zones often depends on the gametype. In Slayer, for instance, dynamic spawns are beneficial because they allow for teams to temporarily switch bases. If Red is all up in Blue's grill with the rockets and a sword, then it makes sense for Blue to spawn back at the empty Red base. In this situation, all spawns are fair game and you don't necessarily need hard spawn zones. The system you described is pretty much exactly how I've set up dynamic spawns in some of my maps. However, in a CTF or other objective game, the number one thing to avoid is spawning in the enemy base (or objective location). In this case, hard spawn zones are beneficial because they completely prevent this problem. Now, bear in mind that you don't necessarily have to split the map 50/50 between Red and Blue - you only need to exclude the enemy base from your hard zone. I've drawn up a quick little diagram that illustrates this. The dark, heavy lines represent hard spawn zones, and the lighter lines represent weak zones. With this setup, each team has approximately 75% of the map available to spawn in. If Red pushes over into Blue base, Blue players will be able to safely spawn on the opposite side of the middle structure, but will never spawn inside Red base. Regarding the gameplay scenario you suggested: In general, a player will respawn farthest from where they were killed. If a Blue player is killed while assaulting Red base, he'll spawn back at Blue base regardless of the type of spawn system. Even with a fully dynamic spawn system (no hard zones anywhere), the safest place for the dead Blue to respawn is going to be back at his own base. You gotta remember, the safest place isn't always the most advantageous.
This: http://www.forgehub.com/forum/blogs/mrgreenwithagun/2789-reach-respawn-zone-tutorial.html It pretty much just says what MockKnizzel has been saying, but in much more detail...
Yup, Mr. Green knows his **** when it comes to spawns. I recommend checking out all of his tutorials.
I can factor this into my symmetrical maps design, but on my one flag map I'm trying something new. I'm using the CTF respawn zones to make defense spawn near their base while flag is at home but closer to the middle of the map when away, so that the furthest back spawns are now closer (like the difference between spawning in your base and in front of it.) I hope this gives the results I want there, I'm testing tonight to see. I did something similar on the symmetrical map for CTF only, but maybe it would be better to just set them up for around 2/3 of the map each as hard spawns. I'll watch that tutorial when I can, I would really like to make sure spawns work, they could pull a good map apart if not set up right.
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