That whole damn album is just so morbid. I mean, it takes a lot of guts and a lot of talent to get up on stage and try to make people laugh at the worst stuff. Some would say that the very best jokes are the ones the audience didn't think they would ever laugh at. You've got to take a break from the awful **** once in a while though, let the audience breathe and stop feeling guilty for laughing.
It's sad to hear that they would shun you.. but what if you just questioned it? I think there's a healthier means of going about this. If you aren't talking to people about it, talk to them. And I don't mean just your friends, I mean people who have experience with the things you find difficult or wrong with society. Okay, I've asked the same question to my parents, regarding how they "settled" on Christianity. Their response was pretty vague, to be honest, and somewhat disconcerting because it made me feel like they had never questioned other religions. I can see how you can feel this way, however I think that suicide would be a terrible reaction to this. Just talking to others would help. So after I heard this response from my parents I discovered that other people don't think the same way, which really is a matter of ignorance, I.. think. But I did learn that a lot of people find differences in individual sects. Look at C.S. Lewis. He was an avid atheist but changed his way of thinking after finding meaning in the gospel. What I learned is that I shouldn't base my beliefs off of my parents' ignorance, but should base them off of what I found most meaningful. It's a pretty bad thing to oversimplify certain religions or any form of thinking without looking at what the real message is. I'm not forcing you to do anything, and you shouldn't feel like people are forcing you to think a certain way. Try to look at religion (and other aspects of society) for what it says, not for what their followers do.
You seem to be misinterpreting my post, at least to an extent. 'Shun' is more of an exaggerated term, but they certainly wouldn't have allowed it. I did question it, but that doesn't do much good when you're the age of 7 and can't form a decent argument. As of today, I've done plenty of talking. In fact, our family no longer goes to church, and my dad is even an atheist. I've done plenty of talking, which is why I think about the subject so much. I really ought to 've gone into more detail about my mental condition when I said I was "Contemplating suicide." I've dealt with depression before, and I've dealt with thoughts of suicide. It basically comes in phases, where difficulties in life trigger these phases. These phases end rather quickly, though, and I doubt I'll be committing suicide any time in the near future. The ideas of many religions are good, but the religions aren't necessary to have those morals or ideals. The idea which the video in the original post was trying to convey, is that human beings have the capability of finding their own meaning, their own purpose. It's the ultimate freedom. I've looked at what the religions say, and what they say is good, but human nature causes these ideas to become corrupt unless they're logically hermetic. Atheism and Agnosticism provide that logical base, and allow you to define your own meaning in life, which seems to be the smarter choice to me.
The reason i post this is that, while it may be possible to achieve the same morals and ideals, it isn't possible to achieve actual joy and satisfaction from it. And yeah, life is a freedom, but I think true freedom would mean non-existence. Life is a freedom that defines a person by their choices. And frankly, I think your beliefs are quite a load. And I'm not trying to target you, I'm saying that your belief is a buildup of false interpretations against society and life as a whole. I think you could look at religion in a very different light if you weren't so deadbeat about the idea of hope. I think you're a genuine person, but your beliefs are very ludicrous.
What's not possible is to achieve joy and satisfaction from going through the motions of a religion that you do not believe in. It's not as simple as just accepting Jesus or confessing your sins or whatever else the various religions promise as the route to happiness. All of those things are predicated on belief that they will work. Belief isn't a choice, and neither is non-belief. People are raised and educated and have life experiences and they come to one conclusion or the other, sometimes for irrational reasons, and then they apply their intelligence to rationally defend conclusions they may have arrived at irrationally. I don't see why this is so hard to understand for so many Christians. I see the line constantly that just believing will fix people's problems, as if atheists once believed in God and then decided they didn't want to anymore and started pretending they didn't. Nobody who actually believed would ever do that. Every religion has built in incentives and disincentives so powerful that it would be literally insane for a person to ignore them if they believed those incentives held any power in the first place. I'm sure you get lines like this a lot, but hearing you say that it isn't possible to achieve joy and satisfaction without religion (presumably your religion) has exactly the same effect on me and other atheists like me as if I told you it isn't possible to achieve orgasm without Aphrodite.
are you saying his absence of belief is ludicrous? because frankly, that doesn't make sense. whatever it is you mean, it's very disrespectful. "ludicrous"? that's VERY uncalled for. ludicrous is being anything remotely like how you're coming across right now. now we're talking absurd and laughable the video was a bit uncalled here and there sure and a bit silly at times, but you just topped it.
"Some people find it depressing that the Universe can only support life for 30 Billion years.. THIRTY BILLION YEARS! ARE YOU ****ING SERIOUS?!" Honestly the most notable point in the video.
I think it is as easy as just that. I think non-theists come up with rather delusional beliefs that simply don't fit reality. Of course this happens all the time. I think God's argument is that people come up with false interpretations. God doesn't seem to have a problem against people who ignorantly believe in Christianity, only against those who falsely believe something else. Yet I know many non-believers have many problems with people who ignorantly believe in Christianity. I can't say I wouldn't either if I was in the same shoes, but I can say right now that people shouldn't judge a general concept/idea just by the people who follow it. I'm simply stating that his beliefs are incorrect. I say incorrect, because that's what the reality is. I'm not inferring that he merely has a choice, because I know it can be much harder than that. Although, all people do have freedom of choice, and I think it's a matter of realizing how ludicrous (as I said before) their delusional beliefs are. And I can see how this could piss off a lot of people. But there doesn't seem to be another way. I could elude to the fact that his ideas are ludicrous, but I don't think that would be very believable. And I've often fought about this idea. Not just with other people, but it's an internal conflict that constantly leads me to believe otherwise. However, I know that life is suffering and that I should just continue. And sometimes I find no sense of retribution in my acts, which can be very disheartening and discouraging. But lately, I've realized there's more to peace and that conflict isn't that bad, considering people are actually struggling to find a better sense of reality. What I'm saying is that I often struggle with this, which shouldn't mean I'm better than anyone who doesn't, but I know now that it's necessary for a sense of wisdom and understanding. And yeah, many conflicts are unnecessary, but some are worth working at if you're wise enough to believe the right thing. It might seem like it causes the same effect, but it really shouldn't. All I'm saying is that it is possible with my religion. ... That's likely to piss someone off.. But that's the reality. I'm saying his misinterpreted, delusional belief is ludicrous. Okay, maybe there's a more suitable word, like ridiculous. I don't think I'm disrespecting anything or anybody by saying that, and if anything, I'm trying to help him. You seem to be using emotion to back up your statements, instead of logic... not the best way of debating seeing as I don't know what you mean by many of your statements. And after reading what I've written, I can understand why atheists and agnostics believe the way they do. Believing a certain religion is a matter of ignorance for some people, unfortunately, but believing a religion for the meaning and strength it provides, is something worth working at. I'm saying religion is helpful, but often other people look at it as a harmful, misleading concept. I'm saying it's not and it's mainly a matter of research and experience to find your niche with God. And the first step for many people would be to look past those things that deter you and look at what it means to millions of people who believe in it.
"guys i found something beautiful and i'm no longer contemplating suicide" "HE NEEDS HELP." quick tell him he'll never actually be happy and call what saved his life ludicrous /logic
Rorak, post the video as-is in the Video section. It WILL NOT degrade into another discussion bashing any religion, or lack thereof. That is to say, post the video, say your bit on it, and leave it at that. ER1C0, I credit your unabashed, unfounded and ignorant zealotry the basis of locking yet another thread because you can't handle someone coming to terms with their life without the guide of religion. It shows clear disregard for another human being to start insulting their views on life immediately after they stated it helped them through a bout with depression that could have lead to suicide. On account of you clearly being a christian, you should really read the bible and learn the following tenants that are common throughout the book and woven throughout the various sub-sects of Christianity: A) live and let live B) to each his own C) turn the other cheek. There's literally nothing in this thread that cannot be reconciled by those three things, nor can any of your actions be seen as reflecting them. You are not preaching the faith, you are demonizing those that don't agree with it. You need to learn how to make up your own mind. The best religious leaders, no matter what faith, state that first and foremost. In conclusion, you are a horrible reflection of what it means to be Christian and every time I have to intervene I feel ashamed that I'm even associated with the same faith. I pray that in time you figure out what path you're going down and learn not to blindly follow the ignorant (and at times, hateful) stance that has clearly been impressed upon you. If you continue this in any public way, you will be banned. This is the fourth time since your first day that I've said such, only to see you disappear then return with the same exact problems. If you want to dispute what I've said here, do so via PM, I'll even clear a slot for you since my inbox is full. Otherwise, be gone.
Anyone else hear a ringing noise? Like something hollow being hit? Rorak, you should really watch Gattaca. It's incredibly sad, but at the same time really poignant. You like it a lot more than that stupid video, and you'll love it compared to believing in a flamboyant omnipotent intra-dimensional space wizard.