I for one wonder why virtually every map has to have two sniper rifles. It's almost become the unwritten rule. I've made (mostly BTB) maps and during play testing players ask "hey, dude, where are the sniper rifles on this map?". When I say "There are none" or "There's one neutral sniper in the middle", some players seem virtually outraged. WHAT!!! NO SNIPERS!!!?? What are other peoples thoughts? Whats so wrong about not putting snipers on a map?
I think 1 neutral sniper is perfectly acceptable on a map. You don't see two rockets, swords (except countdown which loves to spawn new swords and shotties before they old ones are actually gone), etc on every map, and this is no exception.
I try to avoid Snipers on a map. In H3 I was okay with them, but in Reach they are just too powerful. If I really want a long range weapon, I tend to use Focus Rifles.
Answer: Because a BTB map is BIG map made for a lot of people. It's just regular to have a long range weapon on a BIG map, one sniper can do, but if it's an equal sided map, I suggest two snipers and one power weapon in the middle. It's up to you.
It's not even limited to BTB, though. Nearly every map in the series spawns at least one sniper, with a few exceptions.
Most bungie default maps don't have snipers. MLG still hasn't really recognized how powerful the snipers are in this game, so you see one in practically every map. I myself love snipers, but not all maps are made for them. Unfortunately, you can't change the ammo on Focus Rifles, so snipers become the best option for long range weaponry. On another note, neutral snipers don't work particularly well. Rockets do, because they're a reaction/One hit kill/Splash damage weapon. A sniper is not meant to survive on the front lines, so by the time a team retrieves the sniper, the ammo often gets wasted in attempt to no-scope people on the starting rush.
A neutral sniper with a low clip is how many people put them in. If it's a map the size of Hemorage, then two snipers could be acceptable. Usually, I also put a neutral sniper with a low clip. ^_^
The sniper rifle is considered the most "pro" weapon by people who don't understand that it is incredibly overpowered, including Bungie. At some point Bungie decided that because of that every map should have at least one sniper rifle, including guardian, if not two so that people get the full halo experience of random deaths from a sniper camping in a corner on the other side of the map, and having their vehicle destroyed in a few seconds from that same sniper. Of course this also leads to the great experience of little kids screaming about how pro they are getting all how they pwned everyone with the sniper rifle which they got from betraying you because they called it and you didn't get the boot option. Now despite all that they can be good if a map has sufficient cover (not hemmorage), but they should be limited to at most one spare clip, and never placed in the middle as a conflict weapon. That just promotes the wrong use of it (randomly spraying at close range).
Snipers are only overpowered if they have a really good sniper. Even on Hemmorhage, the sniper usually only gets 4-5 kills unless he's smart. All it takes is a bit of flanking to kill even the best of snipers. I do think snipers were more balanced in Halo 3 as they were less powerful. They were also harder to aim with.
By smart, do you just mean smart enough to use active camo and hide in a corner where no one will ever find them let alone kill them, or smart enough to know that it only takes a few shots to destroy a vehicle.
i'm a fan of the 1 Neutral Sniper approach. Especially for BTB. My reasoning is this: the sniper is an object of desire. Many players focus their entire attention on getting it. Having 2 on a map often leads to stalemates, sniper wars right off the start, and balance issues due to skill. the weapon is very powerful in both short range, long range, and anti-vehicle situations. I think players should have to fight for it, and not just be handed one off of initial spawn. Of course this is subjective and just my general opinion.
Just trying to recall how many maps have 2 snipers: Hemorhage, paradiso, boneyard, spire, asylum, boardwalk, breakpoint, pinacle. One sniper: Cage, reflection. None: anchor 9, countdown, powerhouse, sword base, zealot I think its fair to say that snipers are over-represented when compared to other power weapons. In my opinion, bungie as well as a lot of forgers are not giving propper thought to this weapon. They just slap 2 down willy-nilly without any real thought for how it might affect game play. I'm not anti-snipers... just not on every map!
I was going to say the exact same thing. A weapon as powerful as the sniper rifle is in Reach should be something that requires effort and risk to obtain unless the map is specifically designed around balanced sniping gameplay.
People expect two Snipers because Bungie tend to do it like that. Valhalla, The Pit, Hemmorhage, Paradiso, Tempest and more all have two Snipers and are mostly popular and well recognised.
Rockets in particular are an aggressive power weapon, they necessitate a push to make them effective. Snipers are often inherently passive, they facilitate a side-holding strategy due to their effective range, so the convention is often to offset one by having one on each side. Insane first introduced me to this idea back in H3, that a neutral Sniper can be very problematic. When you gain control of neutral Rockets, the effective strategy is to use them aggressively and push forwards, whereas with a neutral Sniper it's effective to do the opposite. This puts one team at a very distinct advantage, passive strategies should not have ranged advantage over the obvious aggressive counter from the other team, and a neutral Sniper does exactly this in principle. That's not to say that a neutral Sniper can never work, but it should be considered very carefully. There's a reason that symmetrical maps which use a Sniper almost always have two, one on each side, and that asymmetrical maps give the Sniper to attackers rather than defenders. Passive setups should never be too dominant, let alone at all ranges.
ONLY 3-4 Kills?! That's pretty overpowered. I prefer Focus Rifles and sometimes i don´t use Focus Rifles or Snipers at all if the map is an open and meant for CQB. I also try to avoid Rockets. I prefer Plasma Launchers.
I am in favor of the two snipers approach on most big team maps. I understand the neutral power weapon argument, but I disagree with it because I think the team that controls the ONLY sniper - regardless of what they had to do to get it - has way too much of an advantage on maps that promote mostly long-range combat. Imagine you're playing Hemorrhage for example, and there's one neutral sniper in the central valley. There's an initial rush via vehicles and teleporters. Red team gets wiped out or retreats, and blue team ends up with a decent player holding the sniper on the hilltop, flanked by a couple of bodyguards with DMRs. It's not an exaggeration to say that red team is now close to ****ed. They can get picked off at spawn easily. They can get picked off the top of their own base with no way to fight back except DMR spray-and-pray. If they come out the teleporter to try to fight back, they are downhill at a fixed point with no cover vs. several guys who are set up, elevated, with cover, at possibly a slightly different location than imagined - red team dies every time. And on top of that, the sniper can destroy or at least hold back vehicles because his weapon is SO damaging to them, they can't advance without getting chewed up - even the wraith, assuming it isn't already destroyed. To me, the sniper's devastating long range capabilities, high amount of ammo (relative to say the spartan laser), and effectiveness against vehicles mean that it balances best and hurts gameplay the least if there are two offsetting ones that the two teams basically own - or none at all. This is only for huge maps though. I don't think it matters as much on mid-sized and smaller maps. There are few places a sniper can hang out on e.g. The Cage where a decent team can't root him out and kill him eventually. Regarding Pinnacle specifically, I think this map is just big and open enough that having two snipers works well for it. It would be extremely irritating to go against a team set up in the large tower with the only sniper rifle on the map. That's borderline cut-your-losses-and-just-quit-out territory. Plus, the original (Ascension) had two snipers in the same places, and I think for the same reason. Personally I don't usually put snipers in my forged maps, but most of them aren't that big. Crawler has two snipers which was just for fun and because the map layout reminded me a bit of Citadel - it's unlikely anyone would be able to just hang back and dominate with a sniper on that map, because there's no place to hang back. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Not for a power weapon. Rockets default with 4 shots and usually result in at LEAST three kills. Shotgun and sword sprees are ridiculously common unless the player holding the weapon acts stupidly with it. The splaser has four shots and unless you're trying to take out a tank, that's usually at least 4 kills - more if one of them is aimed at a warthog. [br][/br]Edited by merge: Thank you. That is a great way to explain it, and I completely agree. The bigger the map is, the more important this principle is, I think. You can't have all this real estate and then basically confine one team to just a small portion of it because the other team can sit back and control all the rest of the space. Anybody who played Valhalla knows how frustrating it could be when a good, organized team set up on the middle hill with sniper and laser after somehow neutralizing or stealing YOUR sniper. Well imagine if that was almost GUARANTEED to happen in a game because there was only one sniper to begin with. I'm not fond of it - if you're going to do a neutral sniper, the map layout needs to be really carefully considered to make it tolerable, and give you ways to counter the sniper without just running through the open and hoping he doesn't spot you.