Well, in all honesty, this probably won't be the most interesting map preview you'll ever read. But, the basis of this is one simple fact: Valhalla remakes are never true to size, and this is because people rely so much on making it natural. My Idea for Valhalla is to make it in the sky, made completely out of Artificial parts. This probably won't be the easiest task, but I think it is far from impossible. Without having to rely on the natural setup of places like the canyon, every factor of the land can be controlled. Because of this, making a valhalla completely in the sky should be quite possible, and, aside from looks, obviously, the most accurate, in regards to size. While I'm fully ready to do this alone, I wouldn't mind teaming up with some people. We'd all share the credit of the Map equally, and you'd be able to say that you were apart of a great Valhalla remake...if we manage to do it. I'd like to know what peoples thoughts are on this. Are there any obvious problems you're spotting from the get-go? Do you have any suggestions? I'm still toying around with many ideas, such as using some natural structures, like the rocks, only because it may actually be more cost efficient than building them out of other pieces. Also, heres a picture of valhalla, if for some reason you don't know what Halo 3 map I'm talking about... Now, I don't want to just randomly jump in and throw stuff together, I definitely want to attack this map as a plan, and that's where I need someone's help.... Is there a single two pieces in Halo 3 and Reach that are the exact same size, either length or width wise? It sounds strange, but I'd really like to measure Valhalla from one end to the other in an attempt to get absolute size accuracy. Now, I know there are some differences in the Halo 3 and Halo Reach game engines, that would make such a thing slightly skewed. But, all the same, I'd like to be able to do this. Soooo....Thoughts? =]
Your basic problem is that creating accurate natural geometry using structural pieces is incredibly difficult. You'll likely be sacrificing accuracy of landscape and gameplay mechanic for the sake of overall size. The minutiae of the inclines and rocks will be incredibly difficult to accurately recreate, and is key in defining the cross map flow of Valhalla, obstructions to line of sight at various points which balance the sides and positions etc. Rocks will only get you so far, and using walls and blocks to create an accurate looking and feeling natural terrain is difficult at best and impossible at worst. Not only that, but doing so will suck objects like you wouldn't believe. The sheer size of Valhalla created entirely from forge objects, including the necessary high boundaries on all sides, is a monumental task and I'm not sure budget/object limits will allow for it. Those are basically the reasons people try to integrate existing natural terrain in to any maps which take place mainly outdoors, simply because not doing so makes the task 100 times more difficult, if possible at all. I wish you luck, but I think you may run in to problems pretty early on in the build.
In addition to what Pegasi said, just by virtue of the change in aesthetics of the map, the gameplay will change. Where people look, and what catches their attention will be completely different even if you replicate the structure and terrain of the map exactly. That said, even the slightest variations in terrain can seriously effect gameplay because even small changes in elevation that you would never notice during a game still have a great effect. People have tried to remake Valhalla many different ways already, and I just don't see it happening until we find the right place, which I'm sure exists.
Agreed on all points, except maybe for the right place existing. It's a pretty big map with distinctive terrain points, not sure we're gonna find it unless Bungie give us a base for recreation, which will even then likely not be accurate in the ways we want.
There are a few specific places I'm looking at. Seeing as making up terrain from scratch is difficult (notice all maps are from campaign with minimal changes) I see no reason Bungie would make up entirely new terrain for forge world, especially since by removing a few key structures from any map, the terrain becomes unrecognizable.
plan number 2 then, Canyon area, using rocks and unnatural objects to replicate Valhalla to true size. I think that the canyon and Valhalla are at least close in size. I think that you're right in saying that my first Idea was a tad realistic, I was being hopeful, simply because I truly miss valhalla. and I can't find my Halo 3 disc, which doesn't make things better. soooo I'm going to jump into forge and see what I can accomplish. I don't think this is impossible. Difficult yes, but defintely not impossible.
No,..Valhalla! Anyway, its not possible to have a 100% accurate remake of it simply because the canyon doesn't offer the right terrain, besides that you also have to remember that DMRs have a better scope and accuracy on long range then the BR yet you walk slower (or faster with sprint) then you did in Halo 3.
You know each letter links to a different Valhalla remake, right? Basically you just restated what everyone else has been saying a hundred times to everyone who tries or thinks of trying to recreate Valhalla. Thank You for the clarification.
No it is impossible. There isnt enough in forge to do Valhalla but definitely build as much as possible. If you want to measure the old valhalla try setting zone widths (territories, ect) to create a measuring stick. My friend asked me to do it out of metal and I said no, so I'll help if you want.
Good point. Those are all great reasons not to try to do in in the Canyon again. But I like your idea and think it has potential. We can all agree that you're not going to truly capture Valhalla. But you can work with what you have. I don't know if you've seen these but here are a couple of good examples of representing natural geometry with the Forge World pallet from CyborgAnthro: http://www.forgehub.com/forum/reach-competitive-maps/115784-high-ground.html http://www.forgehub.com/forum/reach-competitive-maps/113153-isolation.html Particularly, read his threads as he talks about all the compromises and justifications he dealt with. I think he did a superb job and it all goes to show how doable this is. Granted, Valhalla is considerably bigger, which will be an added layer of challenge. If you can find a suitable cliff face to use as one of the side walls, you're off to a good start. If I could make one request. Make it at sea level! If you can get water in the creek, I'll be your best friend.
I think that the idea to make it at sea level is definitely a good idea...I could try doing it next to the cliff on the other side of the canyon, above the water.
This has probably been said before, but you can get perfect measurements in Pan Cam Coordinates in both games.
How about instead of making it in a natural canyon setting, you take the layout of Valhalla and make it into a war torn city. Make the center hill a broken building that flows similar to how top middle flows on Valhalla. Turn the crashed Pelican into a flipped semi truck. Turn the creek into a damaged highway that vehicles can travel on with ease. Turn the trees into light posts. I'm tired of seeing complete remakes of maps, including the setting. Change it up and you could make something great. Basically, use your imagination guys.