Grid Based Spawning

Discussion in 'Halo and Forge Discussion' started by deathangle, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. deathangle

    deathangle Ancient
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    What you will need
    At least 6 Anti spawn zones and 6 weak spawn zones

    To begin layout you spawns and spawns zones as normal leaving only enough to make a complete grid.

    You take a anti spawn neutral as stretch so that it overlaps exactly one third of your map along either x, or y

    Then you take a Weak spawn neutral and lay it exactly on top of the anti spawn.

    continue until you have your entire map covered along one axis x or y.

    repeat above for the other axis that you have not done yet if you done the x axis then you should now do the y axis.



    If you done it right your respawn influencers should look like a tic - tac -toe game.
    Since the weak and anti cancel each other out it really has no effect on your intial spawn set at all. All this does is in decrease weights for spawning in areas where your enemey is. For best resualts slightly over lap the edges of your grid and you should more often than not spawn farther away from you eneimies and closer to your teamates.

    [​IMG]

    Legend
    Light red = Red anti spawn
    Dark Red = Red weak spawn
    Red = Red respawn zone
    Light blue = Blue anti spawn
    Dark blue = blue weak spawn
    Blue = blue respawn zone
    yellow = neutral spawn zone
    Black lines = no influence grid of Anti + weak nuetral zones


    I am currently testing this on a simple map that i have made but only for 1 v 1 if anybody is intersted in helping me test this for larger games or free for all i would really like that. so far it is going really well. This was a bit of an accident to find out really i was having a problem with people spawning in my view and they were predictable but after the grid was placed i have he hasent spawned in my view yet and i typically have to travel father to find him

    Tips
    1. overlap the edges of the grid. This will cause the next neutral spawn area to have a negative influencer as well so your more likely to spawn fatrher away.
    2. I would say the best size for the grid would be a 3 x 3 to a 5 x 5 anymore and you probalby wont have enought influencers to complete you spawn layout.

    Link to fileshare video. this really gives you an idea of how simple this map is while there is still some issue with the spawning after putting in the grid the spawning really seemed to improve.
    Bungie.net : Halo Reach : File Details


    Sorry my truth table were off because i did my test with a spawn system under the grid. Here are resaults from a map using only grid spawning
    K = Negative
    G = Nothing
    Enemey is at 1, 1
    1,1| 1,2| 1,3
    2,1 |2,2 |2,3
    3,1| 3,2| 3,3

    K,K | K,k| K,G
    K,k |k,G |G,G
    K,G| G,G| G,G

    WIth lapping test said
    Spawned GG = 4
    Spawned KG = 6
    Spawned KK = 0 Will never spawn at KK

    WithOut lapping Test Said
    Spawned GG = 7
    Spawned KG = 3
    Spawned KK = 0 never spawns KK

    With no grid
    GG = 3
    KG = 3
    kk = 4 Spawns closer to the enemy more often

    Mabye your starting to see how a grid can help you futher reduce the likely hood of getting spawn screwed. Will publish Testing map in all 3 forms before to long so you can check the resaults and see the difference yours self.



    The resualts confirm that if the grid does not over lap then they will spawn farther away from their oppenet more often.

    If you do use Over lapping they will spawn closer to the oppenent more often but never directly in his view (Depends on map layout as well)

    Sorry about misleading you in the above post with the bad chart but after thinking on it for a while i discovered that the spawning systems i was using under the grid invalidated the resualts. Hopefully this gives you an idea of how you can create a grid using Spawn zones that lead to players spawning farther away from the other team
     
    #1 deathangle, Jan 30, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  2. Stevo

    Stevo Drunken Bantersaurus Rex
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    It's a good start, but the image is very confusing. I don't understand the non influence grid that you're talking about? Do you mean you place an anti and a weak in the same place so it receives no influence at all? if so, why? :S

    I've included this in the spawn theory thread regardless of my understanding of it... however you might want to try clean it up a little to help a few of the members with only basic knowledge of spawn systems.

    http://www.forgehub.com/forum/halo-reach-forge-discussion/118309-halo-reach-spawn-theories.html
     
    #2 Stevo, Jan 30, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  3. deathangle

    deathangle Ancient
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    yes that is exactly what it is. the grid is meant to influence respawns across the map based on where your enemies and allies are. that why the must have no influnce of there own and cancel each other out. this also prevents it from impacting your spawn set up to much.

    It because when an enemey walks into a respawn zone with no iflunece the respawn zone will put a negative influence on all the spawns. by laying the grid on top of layout it manipulates the weights of you spawn system based on where you enemies and allies are.
    So far i have found that it can break spawn boundys such as i have a respawn area for blue but if im all over blues base it will spawn him on reds side even if theres a anti spawn for blue on reds side.
    On my hangman bridge map i was having a circle spawn trap issue basiclly if you walked around the enemies base he would just keep spawning infront of you in a very predictable manner. After gridding the map i found that when i tried the same thing i could get about 2 - 3 kills on him then he would spawn in red base _ Not sure why.

    be warned it can break spawn boundries if your using neurtral spawn points. Basically if you have a Hard spawn set to blue and a hard spawn set to red the blue guys can spawn in red. looking it possible fix may be a while.

    If ur using a small grid it will quickly become all negative when you have a bigger amount of people on the map for a big team game i would say use a 5X5 with no over laping for a 2v2 i would say the 4x4 with overlapping. after you start to grasp what im saying you will start to see how to many enemies can quickly cause a fail so sizing the grid and where to use overlaping is really based on how many people you plan to have on the map. i was doing a 1v1 so a 3x3 with overlaping works fairly well.

    [br][/br]
    Edited by merge:


    .
     
    #3 deathangle, Jan 30, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  4. DavidJCobb

    DavidJCobb Ancient
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    So assuming that this does work reliably, and that your experience with it didn't result from different causes... This could be used to force dynamic grid-based spawns, but not (yet) static grid-based spawns. You're not changing the weights with the zones, but you are changing the areas across which weights are applied. Interesting. I wonder if this could help with spawning in an Infection map...

    EDIT: I might have an idea to preserve team-spawning.

    Split the map into two halves, one with a Red Normal Zone and the other with a Blue Normal Zone. Make two Weak-Anti grids, one for each Zone. I'm not entirely sure if this will work, but it could be worth a shot.
     
    #4 DavidJCobb, Jan 30, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2011
  5. rusty eagle

    rusty eagle Ancient
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    You do realize that testing a complex system like this in 1v1 won't substantiate anything? In most 1v1 cases you're going to spawn as far away as possible from your enemy.
     
  6. Stevo

    Stevo Drunken Bantersaurus Rex
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    Not true... in most 1v1 scenario's I've found that players spawn in the next available respawn area so players have a greater chance of finding each other in combat.

    This is why it's possible to have 1v1's on massive maps etc... (it's just frowned upon for that 1/10 chance where you do actually respawn at the other end of the map)
     
  7. deathangle

    deathangle Ancient
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    Yeah i currently testing the grid in a more profound way. It will be some time before i have any actual compelling resualts. So many variables to isolate. But the most promising resaults i have found is in a grid that dosent use over lapping. compared to the other types of grids i have tested it has the best distance from the oppent when they spawn. The 1v1 on a 3*3 grid is actually prefferd. more players make the influence on the grid harder to predict and a bigger grid makes the influence spread across the grid uneven. once i an done testing im going to release the resualts in anothet post. This one will be much more detailed and provied a much better explination.


    actually The thing about breaking the spawns zones was a resualt of the bad spawn system i had under the grid sorry. My next post is going to have a table outling the areas in which they spawn. a breakdown of how the influence works. Update precentages for spawning. Some graphs and include detials on the many different ways you can construct a grid. I actually test the grid on countdown. I left every thing bungie done alone an placed a grid on the map. when i attemped to cube to grid it cause a spawn trap. but the regular grid worked just fine. Im also going to include links to a testing map that i have been using which works well for creating many different types of grids and recording the spawn output.
     
    #7 deathangle, Jan 31, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  8. DavidJCobb

    DavidJCobb Ancient
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    My advice regarding testing would be to use SWAT. One-shot kills result in a lot of deaths (and respawns), and if there is a spawn problem, SWAT will make it very evident.
     

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