The Hushed Apprentice

I played the map and was very impressed with the aesthetics and gameplay, however I found the spawning points were not as good as teh map...you would often spawn far away from the point you were trying to cap and it made it hard to capture the point...

 

So i'm not sure if you submitted this for the forgetacular contest bungie is having, but it may not be too late to enter it into the custom forge map playlist they are creating. I would love to see this map in matchmaking, and with the proper tweaks, it could be a great new addition.

If you haven't entered it, i bet it's not too late, just fire an email to the contest address they give on the website. I'd vote for it XD

 

I just played this with a large amount of friends and I have to say, this map is quite impressive. It resembles the mission "The Silent Cartographer" in many ways. Also, the gametype works exceptionally well with this map. Nice Job.

 

All I can say is, amazing. Just simply amazing. This map brings back a lot of great memories from the Silent Cartographer, but is original at the same time. And like Sharkface said, you made a map so detailed and ploished on Paradiso you can barely tell it's on Paradiso. Great job, I hope this masterpiece gets more recognition, and you have my DL.

 

Bones, do you have a vid of an entire game? I'd like to see it. Or maybe post it on your fileshare on B.net and I'll just dl it to my xbox.

 

Storming the beach was one of my favorite battles from Halo CE, you have no idea how happy it makes me to see it faithfully translated to Reach... gotta get together a big party and play this soon.

 

wow... just wow. i was glancing at the list trying to find maps that caught my eye. i saw yours and the first thought that came to my mind was "thats the silent cartographer. that or death island." i love the look of this map, and that video was epic. it looks to have amazing gameplay and balance, and it would be a joy to have this in matchmaking. amzing job dude, and this deserves a feature =3

 

This is the first invasion map that deserves on matchmaking thus Ive seen so far. Of coarse, each map will have flaws but ultimately this is a nice piece. Silent Cartographer was my favorite of all Halo games and the sense of playing your map brings me back there. So ya aesthetic are real good, flow of the game is fair (maybe too easy on the Spartan side but no big deal) and the spawn seems equal enough. I had a blast w/ this map. Thanks!

 

Bro, this is friggin sexy. I absolutely loved The Silent Cartographer in H1, so this is awesome. I'll get back to you if I ever run some games on it.

 

I really like the aesthetics of the map; I loved the nostalgia of seeing sights from Halo: CE. I have not had any legitimate gameplay on this map, but from a simple run-through, I have many criticisms.

Starting off, we have some trouble with the objectives and spawning positions. The 2-territory/2-territory/CTF approach is tried and true, so I give you credit there. However, my main issues are the proximity of the territories and lack of Line of Sight blockers. In Tier 1, Elites could easily double-evade from Alpha to Bravo, and could even shoot one from one territory to the other without much hindrance. The center-field territory is also quite large, which makes it that much easier for elites to contest.

In Tier 2, not only are the territories right next to each other, but they take the better part of a minute for offense to reach on foot with sprint. They are forced to utilize vehicles in order to get to their destination, which, like Tier 1, has the entire Elite team camping at it. Vehicles should only supplement players, not serve as their only viable means of travel. Elites lagging behind from Tier 1 could easily destroy the vehicles before Spartans even laid eyes on them, leading to further delay as Spartans wait for the vehicles to respawn. And when they do respawn, the players are quickly killed by the entire team of Elites, who all have 2 sticky grenades— only one is needed to kill everyone in a fully-loaded Warthog. Like in Spire, or Boneyard, or Breakpoint, most of the combat and movement is done on foot— Invasion is an infantry-focused gametype. And both teams can get to all of the objectives in less than 30 seconds. The vehicles' primary purpose is to give an combat edge to each team, not serve as transportation.

Looking at Tier 3, I'm a bit more happy. The timed distance from core spawn to capture point is similar to other Bungie Invasion maps, so no complaints on distance. However, the Core room seems like it could easily be over-camped; it doesn't appear to have many entrances for offense to access, save by jet-packing to the balcony. The gauntlet to the capture point also gives me pause— It seems the carrier has limited cover from the rest of the surrounding area.

Further on the Territories: The true issues with territories in close proximity is that the resource management of other Invasion games is thrown out the window— the entire team can sit in one area and easily respond to threats by evading once or twice. In Bungie-created maps, the territories are far enough away that each team has to legitimately divide its forces to keep pressure on both sides of the map, and over-committing or other tactical errors result in losing the Tier. Such tactics are what make Invasion unique— it isn't just a slaughterfest, it's a legitimate war-like battle, one in which each side plans & adjusts strategies to win the fight. This feel makes Invasion feel like an epic Halo campaign with real battles and real stakes.

Next on my list is weaponry. First is the sniper rifle in Tier 1. Something that Bungie explicitly avoids in their Invasion maps is power weapons in Tier 1. The most either side gets is 3 DMRs/Needle Rifles per team. Power weapons at Tier 1 not only a) grossly imbalance the first tier but also b) steal some of the joy of getting new weapons at Tier 2. Each Tier should be balanced so that teams of even skill have an almost even chance of winning; as a result the more-coordinated and smart team will win. Don't worry about trying to get the game to move to the next Tier— games that end in Tier 1 can be just as fun as Tier 2 or 3.

The fact that are 2 banshees worries me (as banshees are flying wrecking balls), as well as the Spartan Laser (as it easily lays waste to enemy vehicles). The fact that they both exist in the same game and that the Island itself can block Laser's line of sight (so banshees don't die the second they take off) puts me more at ease. Only gameplay itself will determine if they're balanced together.

Next is spawns and the size of the map itself: First, each team should have their own personalized spawn area. This further reinforces the "fireteam" concept that makes Invasion turn around. Paired with the correct positioning of objectives, it forces the fireteams to commit one team to a single objective (when playing a 2-territory tier). The spare fireteam (as there should only be 3 in the Bungie-default 6v6) can move to support either team as necessary, further reinforcing the tactical element of Invasion.

Second, as one tier is finished, it should feel like the game is moving onto a new map. If anything, the first tier should serve as a pathway for vehicles to go through. (I understand why you had vehicles spawn beyond Tier 1, in keeping with the actual Silent Cartographer level. So I'm willing to grant you some leeway there.) In your map, you could keep a backfield Tier 1 spawn throughout the game and gate the rock blocking off the nearby Core Room so that Spartans can enter the Room from two different sides instead of rushing up the single gauntlet-of-a-path. The fact that each Tier becomes irrelevant as the game moves on undermines the map— "Sure this part was important, but it now we're just tossing it away like month-old leftovers." Keep all of the map important, and it will further the suspension of disbelief.

Now that that rant is over, I'll give you some suggestions:

• Try to separate your objectives more, and block line of sight so teams have to get strategic in order to win.
• It may be in your best interests to move Tier 2 closer to Tier 1 (or vice versa) so it doesn't take so long for Offense to get back to the fight and back off the over-reliance on vehicles.
• Give more paths to get to Tier 3. One single chokepoint will allow the Elites to simply mow down the Spartans as they try to get the core.
• Keep all map parts relevant. You put all that work into making beautiful aesthetics in Tiers 1 & 2; don't let them go to waste!
• Do a few Forge-throughs on Bungie's Invasion maps. They have already been extensively tested and are essentially a recipe for excellent Invasion maps.

I have presented my argument based on information from the thread in my sig. The guy who wrote it up, HWM Sarge, is the closest thing to an Invasion expert, and I believe his points can easily be used to create awesome Invasion maps. Some you may not agree with, others you might, but it should prove useful regardless.

I apologize for the long rant, and I'm sorry if I came off as offensive. I love Invasion, and I want to see awesome Invasion maps. You have put a lot of work into this, I can tell. All of my criticisms were meant to help you make this absolutely beautiful map into an awesome Invasion map.

To that end, I will end on praise: I truly and absolutely love the aesthetics. I felt I was playing Halo: CE's campaign again. I'm glad that you kept Bungie's default Loadouts and avoided changing capture times and tier durations, as a gametype that closely matches Bungie's is more likely to get into Matchmaking. Finally, you are on the right track. With the right corrections, the potential in the map can be fully unleashed.


I'll be keeping an eye out for future versions. I wish you best of luck.

 

i know its been said, but good invasion maps and good natural looking maps are hard to come by. Well done, other than a few spawning problems, my favorite invasion map.

 

Hey, I was just checking out your map and I must say, it is a visual beauty. Especially when they compared it to the old Halo CE maps, astounding! I have one I am working on now and hope to post soon, I plan to have the same amount of detail you put in yours. I will be downloading this one as soon as possible!

 

I just discovered forgehub tonight, and I downloaded a good deal of maps to try them out, and this so far is my favorite. Anything inspired by halo 1 can't go wrong. I even like the music you chose for the video. Amazing job.

 

Glad that my ideas could be of some help.

Again, my map is not perfect - but neither are Bungie's. Spawn camping and vehicle stealing are still going to happen, unless you spend significant resources to prevent it - resources I didn't have. This was a sacrifice I had to make. I tried to prevent it with timing spawns, but a glitch in the Invasion gametype hindered that. Weapons and vehicles spawn differently each round based on which team the host spawns on. I couldn't control that, but did my best to curb it.

On Spire Tier 1, it takes roughly 19-21 seconds to reach a territory unhindered from corresponding spawns. For most Territory objectives, it takes about 20 seconds from spawn to the objective. I have not recently timed Breakpoint, so I can't argue with you there.

I did not know that through the shield-door window was a viable route. I thought that it and the balcony could only be reasonable reached by Jetpackers; I'll need to look at the map again.

Honestly, I was most pleased with Tier 3. The ideas you utilized sound like they could work great in play.

I'll have to counter that with the fact that you cannot start in first territory, use evade twice, and end up inside the second territory. The territories may not have been a long distance away through space, but in terms of actual movement they require more than a couple Evades to reach. IMHO, I think Line of Sight & Line of Effect (the ability to deal damage (different because you can use a splash-damage weapon to deal damage around corners)) should be blocked between territories; people in one territory should not be able to easily affect people in the second territory.

If Boneyard's first phase was the entirety of the match, I would agree with you; but for the most part, if one team is able to hold off the other team during Round 1, the first team is likely to be able to move on to further phases during Round 2.

Invasion is an Objective-based gametype; as long as the objective is completed IMHO, then the game was successful. On defense, there's nothing like the feeling of being able to stop the other team at every turn, denying them entry to your territories. On offense, there's nothing better than getting that last Core Capture and overcoming all the odds the other team was throwing at you.

If the Sniper Rifle is completely required in order to balance each team's advantages, then fine. But keep in mind that with random playtesters over multiple games, a balanced tier has roughly a 50/50 split in victory and defeat. If a tier consistently proves to win in one side's favor, then changes need to be made to the map, and more weapons may not be the best answer.

Perhaps I was too forceful in my argument. Surely, players should be free— but "restricted" spawns don't place a lock on their freedom. Even if a team spawns near one territory, they can still get to the further-away territory without much of a time penalty. Spawn areas should encourage a certain course of action, but don't keep players from choosing different one.

This is one of the more controversial points of my argument, I admit. My point is that Bungie keeps using the backfield spawn so that the backfield won't be forgotten. As in the Invasion Conceptualization thread linked in my sig, I think that it shouldpretty much only serve as a vehicle pathway, as in a story-like invasion game, that's the safest zone to drop off vehicles. In your Tier 2, I think it makes sense that you placed the vehicles there, as story-wise the area is already safe from Covenant attack.

I'm glad you took the time to read my OP. Send me a FR if you'd like me to come playtest— I'm always up for an Invasion game.

P.S. Sorry for another ridiculous wall of text.