Plasma Nades and the Warden loadout in Slayer Pro

I just posted a thread over at Bungie.net, but was wondering what those here thought of my points as well. I'm aware that a coherent discussion over there is hard to maintain, especially when you say even a word against the go to herd-a-derp tactics and their armies of fans descend.

tl;dr: I think Plasma Nades should be removed from the Warden loadout in Slayer Pro (FFA and Team, problem is universal if you ask me) for a variety of reasons. For the long version, here's what I posted over at B.net:

Thoughts?

 

I have to agree with the last part from a personal standpoint. I realised something recently, which is that I only find non default gametypes anything but frustrating when the people are so bad that they're literally incapable of a strafe etc. The kind of person who knows little else movement wise than holding forward on the right stick until they're in melee/nade distance, die, rinse and repeat, hopefully picking up some kills along the way, often to the point of not even releasing their precious forward stick when a wall presents a pretty indisputable obstacle. Though obviously this negates any satisfaction in doing well pretty definitely.

I know that sounds pretty condescending (ok, so more like it is pretty condescending) but I'm not starting a 'why are people so bad at this game?' rant. Not everyone plays a lot and god knows I really sucked when I started playing CE, like really sucked. I'm just trying to make the point that pretty much anyone who grasps even the basics of the game is able to do well simply by abusing their L trigger, their B button and their right bumper. I can be noticeably better than people at the basic principles of Halo such as quick aiming, effective movement etc., but these are so often negated by overpowered support tactics. I've been watching H3 videos today (Pistola, of course ) and he was really showing off his fantastic movement skills, dodging frag nades etc. and out BRing people at the same time, totally demonstrating Naded's golden rule that you should never throw a nade once you've begun an engagement proper since it wastes time you could spend shooting and is generally less effective. I'd be interested to hear what he thinks of that principle now, as imo it holds true much less than it did in H3. The combination of decreased movement speed and increased nade power/range makes dodging a nade completely near impossible. So many times I've started to dodge nades, even mid throw, and still not been able to get away without my shields being totally or significantly removed. The fact that you can reverse nade shot (one shot with the DMR anywhere on the body, then follow up with a well placed nade) is a key demonstration of the problem imo. Sprint simply doesn't offset this enough, it's situational and not something which can be anywhere near relied upon for something which should always be a possibility if you're good/aware enough.

I can't personally understand those who enjoy default either, but obviously they are pretty numerous, and fair play tbh. I'm in no position to tell people that they can't enjoy the game the way they like to play it, but stuff like sticky starts extending even in to Slayer Pro is basically the reverse. It equates to Bungie saying "Even in a gametype designed for those who enjoy the core mechanic, we're going to leave in that one last bit which negates the balance of said mechanic in favour of another support tactic". Can we not have one gametype set? Just one? Apparently not. This is essentially why I wish they'd either remove plas nade starts, or even just strip both loadouts to one nade of the respective types each. Part of the problem is that the slow kill time of the DMR even at close ranges often gives the opponent time to throw both nades and get two shots at the stick. I can demonstrate enough movement proficiency not to get stuck at close range, but the opponent gets another shot at it before its even possible for me to kill them with my gun, and even if they miss both the high degree of radial damage can either kill me too or just leave me so crippled I get cleaned up near instantly, generally by a melee (which, whilst I'm on the subject of CQB, now equates to who can melee first as opposed to who can do the most damage. You're effectively forced to melee once within range otherwise you're behind in the two melee kill and no amount of skill can counteract simple numbers like that often enough. It makes CQB only more repetitive and lacking in a skill differential, alongside the nerf to ranged combat vs. speed in terms of bloom this relegates the skilled player to a very limited set of actions over those who apparently think this is tekken meets DBZ, but anyway). Giving them only one shot at the stick would alleviate the problem a reasonable amount imo, and the precedent is there in Arena.

In short(er...): What saddens me on a personal level is that what Halo used to promote is apparently now what Bungie think is wrong with the game, but what really agitates me from a more logical standpoint is how they refuse to even allow it's continuation in any of the available gametype sets. Diversifying Halo is one thing, and in all fairness a good one, but why seek to spread the newer approach (in terms of the wider series) of the casual beating the proficient in every corner of the game? I know this sounds like a mountain from a molehill over a simple sticky start in one gametype set, but it's the last resort being invaded demonstrated to a tee. The game I linked above shows just how much this small addition can, and does, impact upon gameplay, and at times I find it quite hard to refrain from addressing Bungie with the more childish (at least in form, if not in basis) approaches like 'why do you hate people being good at your game so much?' More and more it feels like those making these decisions watch a clutch out DMR or similar and cringe slightly, but see someone doing nothing but walking forwards, sprinting around and passing up that wonderful R trigger in favour of L and B and think 'our job here is done'. Why can't both be looked upon fondly in their own right? Ya know, the mantra that they (and rightly so) put to MLG favouring default bashers who don't just dislike it but expect their preference to be applied across the board?

Gah, way too many words. Being ill makes me easily irate, but tbh I stand by the sentiments if not all of the form regardless of current mood.

EDIT:

Whilst that still wouldn't be great in promoting skill to consistently win out, it'd still be better. Stickies are powerful, simple as, the adhesive quality is abused and this is clear by people who are quite aware and clearly favour it's effective over shooting. The fact that they're so effective that someone can win a whole game whilst pretty much neglecting their actual gun is mind boggling.

I personally don't think that'd solve the problem, it'd simply mean that those who pick the sticky based loadouts wouldn't even have to suffer the more skill-demanding choice of the NR. At least when they do live beyond their two nade throw tactic, they're forced to use a gun which you have to hit more shots with and is less forgiving in terms of random chance rewarding and punishing spamming in near equal measure at their precious close range. Imo the problem is their presence due to their power, and the only way to counterbalance that is to add something more powerful which is contrary to what I'm saying in the first place. I'm after a nerf of a tactic which is overpowered in relation to the skill required, not a further application of overpowered tactics.