Dogfight (On Hiatus) *OUTDATED - NEW VERSION IN PROGRESS - STATUS: ON HIATUS* The aerial vehicles have always been one of my favorite things about Halo, but those moments are far and few between. Those vehicles only show up every so often, and there's never more than two. But thanks to the new capabilities of Forge World, I decided to make a map dedicated to the wonders of aerial combat, with full air vehicle support. Dogfight (New Version In Progress) Players: 12-16 Download Link: Dogfight Map Team Slayer: Sky Slayer Assault: Sky Bomb Stockpile: Sky Roamer Taking advantage of Forge World's expansive airspace, I built two ships made to serve as each team's command center (fancy wording for the classic "two bases" map style). Red Ship's Rear with Blue Ship looming in the distance Each team has four Banshees and four Falcons at their disposal to travel the open skies in an attempt to defeat the enemy. Red Ship Starboard Hangar On the top of each ship are the various armaments built into the ship. The main guns (Scorpions), high velocity cannons (Gauss 'hogs), and missile batteries (Rocket 'hogs). If ever any flying roles cannot be filled, there is always the role of point defense. Red Ship Top Guns Inside are also some anti-vehicle and anti-infantry weapons. Assaults and flag raids will require boarding and attacking the enemy control room. Red Ship Control Room Supported Gametypes Team Slayer (Sky Slayer) -AR/Magnum start, jetpack/sprint loadouts, unlimited AA usage, first to 75. Assault (Sky Bomb) -Take the bomb to the enemy control room and destroy it. AR/Magnum start, jetpack/sprint loadouts, unlimited AA usage, carriers can pilot vehicles. 20s arm, 10s to explode, 5s disarm. Capture the Flag (Sky Flag) -AR/Magnum start, jetpack/sprint loadouts, unlimited AA usage, carriers can pilot vehicles. Stockpile (Sky Roamer) -Collect the roaming flags from the isle below. AR/Magnum start, jetpack/sprint loadouts, unlimited AA usage, carriers can pilot vehicles. 2 minute scoring periods, 7 flags. Weapons and Vehicles Weapons: -DMR x4 (30s) -Grenade Launcher x2 (60s) -Plasma Pistol x4 (60s) -Rocket Launcher x2 (180s) -Shotgun x2 (90s) -Sniper Rifle x2 (120s) Vehicles: -Banshee x8 (30s) -Falcon x8 (30s) -Gauss Warthog x4 (90s) -Rocket Warthog x4 (90s) -Scorpion x4 (90s) The map is still in testing. If you'd like to test with me (separate from the TRC thread), PM me and try to gather as many as you can.
Looks interesting, had a similar'ish idea for my map The Web . But there are a few things in this map that I'm not sure about: - The gauss hogs and the scorpions are usually way too effective against flying vehicles because of their firepower, rate of fire and deadly accuracy, same goes with the snipers. - You could consider embedding the ground vehicles into the ships for aesthetics? Also, in my opinion, the ships look a bit square'ish, you could make them more complex and reduce some of the flat surface aeria; you don't need that much for those ground vehicles since they are immovable. - Falcons always need a pilot and a shooter if they want to defend theirselves. That could be a bad thing. I however do like those anti-vehicle weapons like grenade launchers and plasma pistols that you've put in the map. And the rocket launchers and rocket hogs will probably also make a fun add to the gameplay since they're not the easiest weapons to hit flying vehicles with. P.S. Why not make shield doors in front of the hangars like in the Anchor 9? Would also prevent enemies from destroying those valuable falcons and banshees.
This map has a good idea, but its not executed too well, in the fact that the scorpions are completely overpowered. They are way too accurate for the map to function well as an air combat based map. This goes for the Gauss hogs too. More implementation of the Rocket Launchers and Rocket Hogs could solve this problem pretty easily.
Yay, feedback. Thanks for the replies you two. The scorpions and warthogs have been big questions for me. Thanks for addressing those directly. I thought maybe the distance and their lack of maneuverability could somewhat dampen their strength, but I suppose it's still too much. I will definitely remove the scorpions and gauss 'hogs and replace them. Do you think standard warthogs might work well? I'm not too sure about adding more Rocket Launchers since my objective games are designed to be ship-based, but I haven't had the time to actually try it out. Perhaps the abundance of air vehicles will metes out addition of more rockets (and the removal of the OP scorpions and gauss 'hogs). This is the risk/reward situation I'm thinking of: Use up rockets to get to the enemy ship, save them for enemies in the ship, or save them for enemies trying to prevent you from returning to your ship? As for aesthetics, they will definitely be improved since it is still a WIP. Since the basic structure of the ships are done, it's a lot easier for me to come up with improvements to their designs. I've already penned out some redesigns anyway. As for adding shield doors, I'm not too sure since only one-ways allow vehicles and from only one side. I did have SWBF2-style space combat in mind when I chose to add and create the ships, but I suppose the Banshee exits and teleporters could still work as ways to enter the enemy ships. We'll see. I still have a lot of work to do to make this release-worthy. Again, thanks for the feedback. On to round 2!
But last I checked normal shield doors don't allow vehicles to pass through. I hope I'm wrong and the next time I check it you're right.
I know that if when someone says your map needs major changes, it's difficult to accept, but take this from someone who's tool of destruction in invasion is the banshee. Aircraft, compared to ground vehicles, are delicate; A tank shot will take out anything, as long as the driver is competent enough to aim and lead the target which is only necessary at extremely long range. A gauss hog doesn't need to lead the target but needs to land two or three shots depending on the angle which is arguably more powerful at range. Rocket warthogs have lock on which although it seems powerful, is probably useless because the the rockets can be dodged, even leaving enough time to get some shots off. MG turrets have terrible accuracy at long range, but can tear banshees and falcons apart at close range so they are good for defense. Probably the most balanced defense, however is footsoldiers, because they can avoid fire, and tag team the enemy aircraft. Infinite armor ability might seem like a good thing because people could actually fly for a while with a jetpack, but infinite armor ability gives unwanted attributes like people being able to fly indefinite distances, and stay in armor lock indefinitely or cast infinite drop shields. On the subject of your ships, gameplay needs to be able to flow directly into and out of the base, (to the flag) without choke points or confined spaces. Each team also needs a sort of backspawn area that anyone attacking the base will not have reason to enter. Choke points will cause people who exit the base to be thrust out into a battle with no clue about what's going on. It also means that once someone has flown all the way to the enemy base, and goes for the flag, they could easily just die and end up back at their own base; we play big team for open spaces full of vehicular chaos, not CQB. Anyone on top of the base, (the only place it looks like a footsoldier could take part in the battle) would be either a sitting duck (unless in one of the overpowering vehicles) or else friendly aircraft would rule the skies rendering them useless. About gametypes now. With the capabilities of forgeworld, you could probably get some of those gametypes to work, but some like CTF end up with the flag being too difficult to capture (think CTF on hemmorage). The gametype you will most likely be able to play effectively on this is territories, because it does not require carrying a flag or bomb which would be almost impossible on top of a falcon over those distances. Slayer inevitably becomes a base camping war when one team gains air supremacy. --- To clarify, any shield doors or teleporters count as a choke point. Feel free to message me if you have questions or want help.
Thanks for the replies, all of you. I know all too well concepts will never work out 100% as intended in a real situation, and am grateful others are helping me test those concepts to clearly define what works and what doesn't. Experience is what proves concepts right or wrong, so I welcome all experiences good or bad so I may use them to improve my maps. Hedcaz, I really damn hope you're right. pyro6666, I'll let you know right here, right now, that I am very open to whatever changes are necessary, major and minor. And since you bring with you experience that gives you a greater understanding of the fundamental aspect of my map, your opinion is already highly valued. And, of course, the fact that you're not presenting your critiques like a jerk. Thank you for answers to questions, not all of which have been asked yet. Specifically: -The balanced heavy weapons against aerial vehicles (d4psa and Neoshadow already pointed out my scorpions and gauss 'hogs). Which means base defense will see more Itano-esque displays and definitely include MGs. -Problems with having such limited space for footsoldiers to roam, issues that are magnified with the inclusion of objectives. And you pointed out something worth discussion: Infinite Armor Abilities. It's true, there may be more unwanted attributes that come with such power. Drop Shield and Armor Lock are definite issues, which is why I'm not including them (unless I messed up the settings and they stayed in). I only left in the two that, which extended consideration, would work in such an air-focused map. Yes, people can fly forever in a jetpack, but so slowly that enemies have plenty of time to deal with them before they get anywhere significant. I felt normal usage was incapable of allowing players a possible second chance to bail and be bailed out by a nearby teammate, however small that chance may be (with infinite usage). Infinite sprint may be bad in a standard map, but with limited places to set their running shoes on, it doesn't have much places to shine. These, however, are concept ideas, so feel free to prove me wrong with experience. For things like ship design (in terms of game flow), I've got new ideas and structures now that I have a base that I can improve on and a deeper understanding of my limitations in forge. I hope to remove as much gameplay issues as I can. I'll post some of my doodles for redesigns sometime to see what you guys think. Unfortunately, it may not get translated into the public version of the map anytime soon. For gametypes, I did allow objective holders to use vehicles on their own since there was no passenger seat. Still not sure exactly how well that could work out. On a final note, one critique I really want is an opinion about my Stockpile gametype. The idea of, instead of simply battling up high in the sky in an aerial vehicle or the ships, players need to drop to the island below and collect roaming flags scattered in the area. Since this one is pure concept with no experience to base on, feel free to state your opinion, however harsh it may be. Thanks for the replies, all of you. And thanks for taking the time to help this new forger out.
I have a random idea that I think might work. Decrease both gravity and jump height to the point where the actual jump peak is the same height, but jetpacks will have a great enough force for people to fly farther and people will also be able to survive higher jumps. This could decrease the danger if dropping onto the enemy base thus increase the number of people doing so and consequently the rate of gameplay. There's no real problem with infinite jetpacking here, but eliminating other armor abilities reduces the variety in gameplay. Specifically the drop shield can turn a kill zone into a defensible area which is especially important when under attack by various aircraft. One person with a drop shield fills the basic role of support which allows other players to Have a sort of safe space from which to base their defense or attack. Everything has a unique purpose like this that is quite important. Combined with the above idea, you might be able to implement these other armor abilities, but even if it does not work, I think the inclusion of other armor abilities is more important than infinite jetpacking which could be replaced (in some form) by mancannons. Allowing a single player to transport an objective quickly is generally bad, so setting carrier traits to 'no driver' would be a good idea. I really like the stockpile idea, because it brings the aircraft based gameplay down to an interesting environment. The only problem with this is that falcons climb slowly so the ground battlefield will be separated from the air battlefield significantly. If you end up doing significant work on the ships it might be worthwhile to move the ships down so the battlefield would not be too vertically separated, and the aircraft would be able to use the terrain as cover between ships. This would also give you the option of placing other objectives on the ground so the ships will not have so many problems with spawn camping in games like CTF and Assault. Moving the ships down could also solve the problem of direct ship attacks from the enemy ship if they are low enough for the mountain to block the lines of sight. Any turrets on the ship at least should not have a direct view of the other ship, even if you accomplish this by some sort of construct floating above the island between them (which would also add some variety to the aircraft attacks). There are many places your map could go from here, so I can't really get too specific. /walloftext (now I understand how Pegasi feels)
O_O Decreasing gravity is actually a really good idea. I will definitely use that instead of infinite AAs. Thanks! With the objectives, the problem is for some weird reason "No Driver" does not work with Falcons. Seriously, it doesn't. I'd love to use the "No Driver" option for flag carriers but for some reason it doesn't work, which is why it's currently set to "Full Use." Try it. I know I did, and it didn't work for me. And I'm still not sure about forcing objective runners to ride on top of the Falcons. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if AA use was enabled while holding the objective. Thanks for the reassurance on my Stockpile idea. I still do intend to keep the ships by making them more open and less cramped. The current plan is to give most of the rooms at least three entrances/exits with less clutter. And because the Banshees and Falcons are valuable, the exposed hangars are shrinking to accommodate only one Banshee and Falcon each, with new, more protected hangars. I'm just contemplating whether or not to restrict enemy access to the inner hangar with one-way shield doors. It could double as a safe spawn if enemies are attacking. And yes, I will bring the ships closer to the island. I think I'll build the map to primarily play Stockpile, and see what I can do to work other gametypes into it. Maybe for slayer I can add power weapons/vehicles to the map. Or connect the ships to the ground somehow with a teleporter or a grav lift! I love brainstorming!