I disagree. Sure decision making is a big part of individual player skill, which is made up (roughly) of aim, movement skill, decision making, positioning, awareness, and likely a couple of other things which I'm forgetting. I agree that without a decent head you won't get far in a skilled environment, but without a good shot you'll be hard pushed to win any 1v1 encounter, meaning whatever decision making you have in your favour won't have much of a chance to be implemented. A good shot is essential in being any good. The things that set great players apart from good are the smarts, but what forms the vast majority of the skill curve in Halo is still how good your shot is, making it by far the most defining aspect of skill. A solid DMR is the fundamental skill of Halo, and I'm sure any of the best Halo players would back me up on this, smarts alone won't get you very far against skilled players.
And I disagree. Many of you guys forget that there are several play styles. Being close range, long range, or standard. Some people are better at others. I flex between all of them, so I'm not the best at all of them. But recently, I've found that camping is indeed no requirement for skill. It takes patience, good positioning, and even better intel to know where and how to camp. Most people say it's a noob tactic, but it's harder than it seems. People are always looking around, and there are always their teammates with them. (If you play with good players.) It may be easy to get one kill, but it's easier to die shortly after that. IF you're on your own. But it's also smart if you're camping by your team. Using your team to draw out the opponents, and swiftly stopping them from succeeding in eradicating your teammates. But you would also have to check to make sure no one else is behind the person you kills so that you kill them, but die in the process. You don't have to be good at aim, but you do have to have patience, and smarts. I beat several people 2 on 4 and even 1 on 4 before by simply camping, knowing where to go, and the like. Close range is not skill, unless you're no-scoping the **** out of people. Although, it does depend on who you're playing. Then obviously you do need skill, but not as much as one would think. That's what your teammates are for. Protect your team, and they protect you. But it's given that none of your team can't have skill. If everybody camped on the opposite team, then it's a little too easy to take care of them.
I love how when you use the focus beam it can draw the entire enemy team if you fire for too long. I'd love to get a team of guys to hide next to someone while they use it to ambush guys.
You can get about 12 kills with focus if perfect aim. It is much as with sniper(usually sniper has 12 rounds).
I'm talking about competitive skill though, whereas you seem to be more talking about playing with randoms vs. randoms. Exploiting a lack of teamwork on both sides of what should be a team game =/= skill, this is coming from someone who has a 1.9 k/d from doing exactly this in TS since the game came out. Trust me, that really doesn't qualify as skill. If the discussion is on the basis of a team environment, the assumption should largely be that there is actual teamwork and proper coordination, otherwise any measure of success is as much reliant on how bad the opponents are as well as how good you are. That amounts to callouts, strats, and keeping the entire team aware of everything possible about other team locations. I find discussions of what amounts to true skill, based in a casual context, somewhat self-contradictory. If the teamwork aspect is to be negated when talking about true skill then it must be in an FFA settings, which puts even more emphasis on your raw DMR skill. True the emphasis on positioning and decision making also goes up (to a lesser extent) since you have to rely entirely on your own positioning, ability to choose the right shots to take and, frankly, steal kills, but I'd still say that the raw aiming skill goes up more than these factors for FFA.
I was sniping on paradiso then guy came from side i saw in radar he didn't shoot so i knew he was going for a assignation so i turn 180 to go hide behind wall because i new as soon as i moved he would shoot giving him advantage of first few shoots i got behind wall stepped back got in angle scoped sniper(because i suck with sniper had to make sure it hit) to take his shields down then swaped to dmr head shooted him after missing once and he hit every shoot on my head i was 2 shoots from dieing but my "Tactics" made me win, If i had just turned around and tried a 1v1 DMR fight could of won could of lost who knows who was the better aim and straifer and bloom controller at that time. So can't say i won that from accuracy proving it isn't the most important skill in every situation. My post said most people get confused and think accuracy is the only skill and i also said it is a skill just not the only one. Which was aimed at the halo community at a hole not just in a competition environment. (though everything i say is under the assumtion its a cometitive environment aka no betrayals etc people playing to win) Teamwork is a skill, Kinda confused if your saying Accuracy or Teamwork is the most important skill? Which team would you prefer? (every team has just slightly above average in everything else) -Team with perfect Accuracy -Team with perfect Teamwork(everything someone see's the hole team see's instantly) -Team with perfect map knowledge(every jump,weapon spawn,radar dot location etc) -Perfect Weapon knowledge(how long to kill,its range etc) I would prefer "Team work" Because make every situation have more people to help. Even if they can't shoot perfect know how things work there still more people. I guess we must play differently you like to fight 1v1 face to face and have an advantage by your better aiming , I play by getting high ground or better weapon for that range and have an advantage that way. Not sure if where still talking about Sniper vs focus rifle (maybe bit offtopic?) just if you want to continue lets just say sniper is aiming and focus rifle needs more situational awareness and disusing which is better.
@William, yes you made a smart decision by ducking into cover and made the correct move in challenging him in that situation. So, good decision making is important to survival because your teammates won't always be there to watch your back and it's how you handle those situations that you define you as a player. But, you still had to hit that snipe shot and then the subsequent switch to the DMR. If the other player had been smart, he could have anticipated the bait and switch tactic and thrown a nade or used your own cover against you. Anyways the point is, you outsmarted him, but you still had to hit those shots. The fundamental skill of aiming and hitting shots is the most important aspect to shooters. Decisions making and player awareness are important as well, but they are not fundamentals. Those things come through experience, but if you have bad eye hand coordination then it'll be rare that you'll succeed. @Frag, you play sucky kids so it's easy to pull of camping. That's the plain o' truth. Plus, those tactics you've developed are very poor for team play, so you're probably a terrible teammate. (Srsly, waiting for your teammates to be ambushed so that you can mop up, how selfish.)
No, I don't play sucky kids. I play WITH sucky kids. And people who quit. I don't camp unless I know I can't rely on my teammates. Otherwise I AM the team. I'm always carrying them. Besides, it's hilarious to watch them run up to them, get a bunch of nades thrown at them, then run back; after I tell them to not to.
Thank you, rusty, well put. I'm not saying that all games equate to Octagon where it's entirely reliant on your shot (and somewhat the finer points of movement like strafing etc.), but a strategy basically exists to put your basic skill in to a position where it can be effective. It's very difficult and rare to find a strategy or approach that can be relied upon so much as to put a largely bad shot in to a position to win games, not just single specific encounters. Myriad things can impact upon single encounters, with a complex map design you can happen to be in a position to be able to do something like that, for example, whereas plenty of other times you would have basically been prey to his shot. Also, remember that you had a weapon that can take someone one shot, he didn't. In a DMR vs DMR battle, would you have won? I know you can't just rule out power weapons since controlling and using them is an important aspect of skill, especially in a team game, but if your examples of worse shot beating better are reliant on having a significantly more powerful weapon than said opponent, can you really claim to be more skilled in general than him? A great shot and no other skills is going to do nothing, without awareness you're not going to be able to put the shot to use 90% of the time. I just don't see how anyone could disagree that aim is the fundamental, defining factor of an individual player's skill in an FPS. To find an example of really bad aim beating good aim consistently, you'd have to have such a lopsided player that it basically never happens. Someone who has a great shot but is so stupid as to get outskilled by much worse opponents consistently (not just one example of a worse shot beating a better, I'm not saying it's as simple as that, and if I were I'd have to claim that the worse shot would never get a kill in all games, obviously not the case), and this doesn't happen really because the subsidiary skills are, in general, much easier to acquire to a 'standard' level than is true with aim. It's not just about what's important in a given encounter, but what's the hardest to acquire as a skill. Most people are either stupid in their basic strategy, or appreciate how the game is played and, whilst maybe not being strategic geniuses, don't make those key mistakes much, in general they make the 'right' decision (right not necessarily being best in every situation, but a good decisions based on how the game works in general). The biggest skill differential is aim, which is an important part of what I'm saying. @ Frag, I'm with rusty in that if you can pull off camping consistently then you aren't playing good people. That's not necessarily a criticism since I have plenty of games where I experience the same thing. I have team mates who pick Slayer Pro and then think the best approach to the game is to sprint around trying to double melee, or sprint/sticky spamming, or to rush the enemy side on Asylum and just abandon our spawn and power positions, getting confused when the enemy spawns on our side and they don't find anyone, often being content to spawn rape a single guy whilst I have to fight off the remaining 3 over and over. In short, I know how it feels, but just because you know how to exploit the stupidity of opponents, and account for the stupidity of your own team mates and not bother trying to work within their dynamic, doesn't mean it's very skilful. But when people talking about stuff like camping and tactics highly reliant on the failings of their opponents (often not accepting this latter part), I can never understand how they actually think it's the best approach or the most skilful in the wider sense. I know people often get a bit hissy when you use MLG as an example, but why do you think these tactics are basically never employed on the Pro Circuit? It's because they're not effective unless your opponents are, basically, stupid. I know people are saying stuff about how skill discussions apply to wider Halo as well as just the competitive scene, but that's like saying that what constitutes true skill in any given pro sport should be judged on how casual players who play in a weekend team play, rather than watching the pros and seeing what actually makes a difference when everything relies on it.
Well said Peg. I would also like to add that having the mentality that you are the team will cause your team to fail. It is nice to find people that click with your pace of style, whether it be constant aggression on maps that flow circularly or people who understand the importance of top control. That's not always going to be the case, so that's why it's important to recognize and communicate. I've been set-up with my team at the top of reflection watching their backs and the next second they're gone pursuing one of my call-outs. Next thing I know, I'm looking down the barrels of three guns. Those are moments where teams, especially ones randomly made in matchmaking need to communicate their intentions, because I recognized the situation we were in, we had top control, the lead and the setup to maintain control of the situation and they gave it up. I got raped, but I didn't get overly frustrated about it, I learned that my team were going to pursue the other team to the end, so I changed my strategy from setting up with my team to more of a roving death squad. I've been changing my play style to a support role as well where it's important to place shots on multiple people at once rather than engage in 1v1 battles. I do have a good enough DMR though to slay well, but you absolutely can not win a game of halo by yourself, unless the skill gap in the games is highly lopsided. Frag, I think you need to change your player mindset to not what your team can do for you, but what you can do for the team.
Clever it is true. Holding the reticule directly over someone for a long period of time takes more skill then using outrageous bullet magnetism to do the job. I think the Focus Rifle is one of the better things to happen to this game, it shouldn't be overlooked.
What about movement (being able to get from point A to B fast and quietly, never having the other team know your location...?) What about intelligence (assessing the situation, predicting the most common response to the situation from the enemy players side, and making the best move to counter it?) What about calmness (the player who can have no shields, turn around and out DMR two people then have the patience to pick up the third and actually line up the shot instead of shooting fast for the multi-kill?) Beyond that, Accuracy is still the most fundamental.
To stick up for Frag: I know how he feels. Honestly, a lot of the time in TS it's a case of desperately trying to kill faster than your awful, awful team mates can die (which is often at a simply staggering rate). If my team mates decide that running in a tight group of 3 directly at enemies, throwing grenades and meleeing about 5 times as much as they even consider pressing that funny little R-Trigger thing is the best way to go about things, fine. But I sure as hell ain't gonna join them just to be a good team mate. Sure I'll do my best to save them when I can, since them dying more means I'm going to lose, but quite frankly it's often a case of trying to keep myself alive when they're absolutely atrocious excuse for even basic tactics leaves me at the mercy of 3-4 enemies whilst they're milling around on the other side of the map with their thumbs up their asses. I try to avoid baiting my team mates, but a lot of the time they frankly bait themselves, running forward blindly and dying, giving me a clear indication of where to look for enemies and exercise my expertise as the only one on the team who knows what a gun is, let alone a ranged weapon. This is past the point of me politely trying to indicate what would be a better approach to take as a team (most of them don't have mics, so I can only assume they're hearing me, and I guess most of the time they aren't), then rather more firmly, then either giving up completely or resorting to the Frag approach of communication: 'Seriously, running forward without shooting and just chucking grenades again?! It didn't work the last 20 times, why would it work now?' 'There are other directions on your left stick than forward you know' 'Can you not see my service tag, or do you just get so excited whenever you see any battle going on that the ability to do anything other than spam the L-Trigger suddenly escapes you?' Honestly, at the worst of times TS is like a playpen. For dogs. Special dogs at that. When you have the luxury of team mates who react to the results of their actions, success reinforcing them and failure causing a new approach, and who at least try to communicate or even react to your communication, then I agree completely with everything you just said. But there are plenty of times when it is just a case of desperately trying to get kills faster than your team mates can die. I've had plenty of games where I've gone more than +20 and still lost by a significant margin, not by camping and leaving my team mates to die, but simply because one man cannot save 3 when they are intent on doing nothing else other than running at the enemy shouting 'kill me, kill me, KILL ME!'
I don't play TS that much, I mostly stick to arena, so I've got much better chances at finding competent players. Resorting to slayer mode in an effort to win due to the absolute stupidity of team mates I completely understand. It's funny that you should mention mics...
Pegasi, you obviously don't know how to camp. Camping doesn't mean staying in one spot the whole game, it means consistently waiting, flanking, coming up from behind, and running. Then rinse, and repeat. Camp in one area, get one kill, skedaddle, then camp in a completely different area. Sometimes luring them with the DMR to one place, while camping at another. Camping is not just a slow process, it's extremely slow. Creating anger amongst them, getting them to charge you, luring them, being patient, being smart, and most importantly; being cheap. If you have a good team, then it's not that hard. You can actually count on them. It also means keeping them from getting power weapons. But in reality, I don't camp that much. I stay long range. Interesting perspective, but no. I've done that for ages now. I see my team rushing the other team, then I get into spots where I can flank/weaken their shields. Or I'll grab rockets and save asses. Or I'll grab sniper and tear off faces. There are several things I've tried. None of it works when your team has a .5 k/d. That's when camping starts working. Using my team as bait is very cheap, and cruel. However, I DON'T LET MY TEAM DIE. This is how camping has proved to be a great tactic when losing. And I know I can't win them all, but it gets ridiculous to see what my "team" does.
Watch me Shotty ***** on Countdown, then say that. I circulate most of the map, barring the lower, more open areas, to great effect. Depending on how stupid/impatient they are, you don't even have to be that patient yourself, but I agree in many circumstances that it is necessary. Which is why it's so easy on Countdown Slayer Pro, there's only one power weapon and, if you're camping right, it's in your hands . @ rusty: FUUUUUUUU, they're cheap pieces of crap that die easily.... That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.