Sorry for the weird formatting, I was trying to retain the format I was going to use on Bungie.Net Here I'm trying to make a complete (and REALISTIC) list of all the changes that should be done to the Infection play-list. The List So far Spoiler I will mix both gametype edits and gametype modifications though list all suggested gametype modifications At the bottom... Gametypes: Map Edits: Gametype Modifications: This is not for the tl;dr people.... Backstory Spoiler I just Spent My ENTIRE DAY playing infection and taking note of everything about it. I spent a significant portion of that time looking at people's posts. I understand That there are A LOT of posts concerning all of infections problems, and what people like and dislike (heavy on the dislike) about it. When it comes to suggesting what should be done about these problems, though, things get confused and controversial. So I started playing Living dead, from 8 AM - 9 pm (Whats a social life?), observing the game, and taking note on what worked and what needed a little reform. Rant Spoiler What I noticed was that while a lot of things that people are complaining about are completely legitimate. There are reoccurring complaints that are truly just not thought-out well. I'll go ahead and name one; Evade. Some people hate evade, saying that it puts zombies at an unfair advantage and basically that it is annoying or whatever. I have found that for both the zombies and the humans, evade is necessary and makes the game totally fair. Evade is perfect maneuver to counter Bottlenecks. If Zombies had sprint, or anything else for that matter, It would be IMPOSSIBLE for the zombies to successfully kill the humans, in mid-range maps like boardwalk, and impossible for the humans on tight indoor maps, countdown. I just see the evade complaint as a bunch of campers getting owned. Though I would be happy to discuss this point. But I digress. I just would like to emphasize the idea that there is a difference between "Annoying" and "Dysfunctional". People confuse the two, which leads to unhelpful suggestions and nonconstructive complaints. Reason For Post Spoiler The reason I'm writing this is because, well.. Im really bored.. but also I ♥ infection and I wish it to succeed. Im not sure if bungie ever sees anything from this site (Other than maps) so I plan to post the finished product of my list on Bungie.Net. The forums there are flooded, so I don't expect my post to even be seen but on the nearly comical off chance that someone is dedicated enough to even read through the list and bump it, I want it to be the most complete list of reforms possible. I also am trying to make these suggestion well thought out and realistic. Thoughts? Suggestion? Do I need to add anything? Do you disagree with anything?
2 (or 3) points for a kill as a zombie in regular infection, it's really not that hard to get 5+ kills as a human (alot more if the zombies are bad) but its really hard to even get 3 kills a a zombie
Yup, got that in there. I really don't understand why budgie doesn't have this in the play list already. It seems like it would be something they would immediately come up with in testing.. I don't get it.
I think that the safe havens idea is pretty sweet, because as it stands, the safe heaven serves 0 purpose, becasue you'll survive longer and get more kills just camping at the end of the hallway, becasue as soon as the heaven ends the survivors will get bombarded by zombies from all sides. The only other way it would work is if the zombies wouldn't be able to tell where the haven is.
Good Idea. Then have a race type thing. You'd Have all sorts of chaos happening all over the map. I like it.
I take Infection seriously and HATE campers (but recognize the difference between "camp spots" and "defensible positions"), so I think I can contribute. Powerhouse Add a Soft Kill on top of the... semicircular nub-like structure between Powerhouse's titular structure and the roof above the bathroom. Today, I, as a zombie, saw (I **** you not) some zombie help a human jump onto said structure. A zombie can only get onto it with a difficult jump on either side where it meets the cliff, making it ridiculously easy for the lecherous human to rack up kills. (Said zombie booted me when I gave him the slash to the balls he deserved. RAGE.) (Two or three humans could also cooperate for a similar result.) Also find a way to nerf or block off the bathroom in Infection. It's too campable. Asylum I once saw a human get on top of the bases. Not the sniper spawn buildings. The actual goddamn bases. In Infection. Took ages to kill him and we gave him hella points, cR, and commendations as a reward. No clue how he did it, but he could see almost the entire damn map! The northern cliff is also ridiculously easy to climb and camp. You can climb up the corner as a human and run along the cliff (in the hardcoded Soft Kill) until you get to the middle of the cliff; then, drop down onto a protrusion and you're safe. Zombies can only get to you with some clever jumping trickery, and you've ample time to headshot them before they even get a chance to try it! They need a Soft Kill covering the entire rock face, starting ~3 units from the top, extending 5 units above, and being 4+ units thick (protruding 2+ units out from the cliff). (A friend did the latter, but only for an epic screenshot; he'd go there, not shoot anyone or actually exploit the spot, become LMS, let the zombies gather, and jump down on them all... and get pwned.) The gametype itself. Bring back the Leech and Decay options for shields and health, and allow someone to die from decay. Then, I can make a map/game where Propane Tanks are the Havens and humans' health/shields decay outside. So the Tanks are like oxygen. Players actually need them (so using them doesn't mean cornering yourself, it means staying alive) and a fast zombie can break them, forcing the humans to move. The playlist. If someone quits and that causes rebalancing (forcing a human to respawn immediately as a zombie), they lose 1000 cR. Minimum. Boardwalk This map is beyond fixing. It fails. Remove it from Living Dead. People always camp, always, and ruin it for the zombies. It's exploitable beyond belief, and many camp spots are near-impossible to counter. And on a very much related note, Spoiler I'm so gifted at findin' what I don't like the most ♪ So I think it's time for us to have a toast ♪ Let's have a toast for the douche bags ♪ Let's have a toast for the assholes ♪ Let's have a toast for the scumbags ♫ Every one of them that I know ♫ (IOW most of the problems in Infection relate to people with subpar conduct, who exploit any issue in the maps -- issues Bungie seems to be reluctant to fix, unless they just happen to also affect their precious Arena mode.) What testing?
Assylum cliffs should have a hard kill zone along that edge, there should need be no warning for that, let the exploiters be punished. A 1000 credit penalty for quitting infection? I think not, other playlists deserve this much before infection, aka Objective, multiteam, and invasion. Where loosing a teammate will most likely mean loss of the game, or getting baseraped whereas the match is no longer fun, and causes the rest of the team to quit out as well.
I noticed that when people suggest fixes, they sometimes feel a need to punish people for doing things they find annoying, rather than just disable them from do whatever it is. People are ALWAYS going to choose the option that gives them the advantage, during a game. And people are ALWAYS going to complain that that advantage exists. Saying, "uhh that camping spot is ruining that game" or "uh doing that is exploiting", is usually not capturing the whole picture, because your excluding the fact that those camping spots, or those over-powered weapons ARE the game. And to eliminate those won't always make everything alright, rather it will just make the next most advantageous option more annoying. Just something to think about.
I agree with your suggestions but I also think: They should remove the shotgun delay. It's annoying that shotguns are alot worse in extreme close quarters, and I've even got booted because the shotgun fired after I became infected. Also, don't make zombies have a constant radar? Please?
That weird projectile contact/ kill delay is something that is a problem throughout the game and in a lot of aspects of gameplay. It is best illustrated by the ability for you to get a "bull-true" AND get killed which is contradictory to the metals purpose.. As for the radar thing, the zombies not having enhanced radar would very negatively affect the game. It would be unfair for the zombies.
@FlamingArmadillo, Jupiter: The "surrender" option I saw on B.net forums would cover other playlists, but Infection is the only one that auto-rebalances (if current zombies < starting zombies) meaning that "surrender" wouldn't be applicable. If someone quits and causes a rebalance, unfairly turning a human into a zombie instantaneously, they should be penalized. @dreaddraco2: There's a delay on all weapons, though the delays of the Shotgun and Sniper Rifle are very noticeable (and, in the latter case, illogical). However, the problem you describe isn't because of the delay; it's the same mechanic as Halo 3's mutual beatdowns, it just covers nearly all kill methods now. They need to detect mutual kills between a zombie and a human, and specifically exclude that from the betrayal engine. @Jupiter: Yes, we shouldn't punish everything, but if Bungie's willing to instate quit bans, I fail to see how cR fines for rebalance-causing quits would be unreasonable.
Just found one out. Sword Base - Ledges above the grenade launcher. Shown below, with guys on two different levels, the one on top lasted alot longer (last man standing of course) because its much harder to get there. And just plain ol remove pinnacle, that tower is too campable, no good way of changing access, and too big a part of the map to remove.
On Zealot, two or so human Initial Spawns are positioned directly in front of zombie Initial Spawns, such that any humans that appear in that spot will usually be rushed and spawnkilled by zombies in seconds. (Apparently Bungie forgot about the "Initial Zombie Count" option...) These Initial Spawns need to be moved so that humans that spawn on them actually have a chance at survival. On Zealot, it is a bit too easy to camp at the bottom of the yellow space lift. The spot should be nerfed or blocked, somehow. EDIT: BUMP: With the aid of a teammate, a human can jump on top of The Cage's sniper tower, becoming invincible.