its okay if it costs more budget, i just want the option to use it. i dont care if it takes 100 dollars, it would be nice to be able to use it if it fits in the budget. and the movable gravlifts would need to come back too, along with the immovable ones.
I've just been slowly combing my way through these replies, and thinking to myself: 'Either Bungie completely didn't notice any of this, or they did it all purposely.' Think about this, If Bungie knew that people would complain about Forge World, mocking it's framerate and it's architecture, and they put a 'ForgeCity' in DLC, and it has basic geometry, movable objects and a much smaller, more manageable area, people will buy it, thus Bungie make money off it. If they didn't realise any of this, then they again implemented Forge too late, and didn't take into consideration much of the communities wishes. Hell, one thing that would make Forge so much better for me would be an undo button. Most of your ideas are valid, and make sense. But from a booming FPS market, Bungie obviously wanted as much money that they could make. Boasting realism and customization is an attempt to get CoD players over I 'spose. If I wanted my own Forge World, it would be a huge box. All it would come with was a skybox, and you could add terrain, items, scenery etc. from there. If you wanted a map that was suspended completely over the ocean, with a mountain of land on the left and a large aerial area you could have it. This is probably going to be considered a rant, and a huge, annoying post, but nothing is ever perfect. Reach is a brilliant game, amazing campaign, brilliant multiplayer... they just... overlooked stuff I guess. (please don't get flamed please don't get flamed please don't get flamed) :S
I agree with some (SOME) of the specific complaints and suggestions in this thread, but the general tone of the complaints is weird to me. Forge World + the new forge seems a lot better, easier to use, and more flexible than anything we had before. I can dream up a hundred ways it could improve, but it is opening up far more possibilities than even Sandbox, and many of those possibilities are easier to realize by a magnitude of 3-4 times. It's like people are already taking for granted the physics controls, the safe and kill zones, and the large assortment of places to forge in. Also I realize we're all getting more familiar with (and therefore more bored with) the default pieces and textures, but no map ever made on Sandbox impressed me visually. The best maps were geometrically pleasing and that was about all you could say for them, because the textures and background made every map just kind of aesthetically dull. I agree that it's a little harder to merge these complicated and differently-textured objects in Forge World in a pleasing way, but the tradeoff is that when it's done right, it looks close to a real Bungie-released map - something you could never say about Sandbox maps. Even the Bungie-made Sandbox variants and the user-generated ones added to matchmaking were very plain and last-gen in appearance, beyond their core architecture. But I see screenshots of Forge World maps now that make me think, "I HAVE to play this." It just takes careful piece positioning, creative use of lights and FX, picking the right place to build your map (can't emphasize that enough), and strict attention to z-fighting issues. I have a number of minor complaints, most of them already stated here, but to me they are secondary to the huge advantages given by the new forge and Forge World. The only thing that I think qualifies as a major, legitimate headache is the lag.
Well Forge 2.0 is a vast improvement over Forge 1.0. We should just be happy with what we have. It's an amazing console editor. (Farcry2 doesn't count ) In my mind, PC will still be the best system due to the fact that a PC can have 16GB of RAM, an i7 Quad Core, some amazing graphics card, etc. and will always eventually beat a consoles specs if it doesn't already. Too bad my PC isn't working. Forced into an old laptop
The difference being isthat consoles are the same across the board, so devs know what they have to work with. PC's can be high-end drool-inducers or sluggish sleep remedies, and the devs either have to decide between lowerig potential quality or cutting some customers out of the market. PC's are good for some things, while consoles are good for others. I hate the "my comp pwns ur console lawl" arguments, because while they are performing similar tasks, they are essentially two different mediums. It's the same reason I hate people arguing that a book was better than a movie or vice versa--while both forms use the tools at their disposal to present the information, they are being presented in two different mediums, and should be judged accordingly and on the merits of each. Whether it's book/movie or pc/console, the point remains the same--each has it's pros and cons, and should be taken for what it's worth. A novel-inspired movie may be a bad movie simply because it is poorly made rather than because it was novel-inpired, the same way a console map editor may be considered good in it's own right, despite the fact that a pc may be able to do it better.
Forge world is better/less time consuming in terms of designing and putting together maps more easily. It is harder/more time consumer in terms of getting spawns right, setting up kill zones and and adding objectives for each individual game type since there are so many more to do. It has been frustrating the past couple of weeks but once you start to get a hang of things it really can be a ton of fun. Looking forward to finishing my map and posting it here.
Yep, I argee with you on all counts. I think when they made forge world they didn't research enough what hardcore forgers want. The lack of pallets in forge world makes me sad. The pallet is one of the most versatile pieces in forge. Pallets are the easiest piece to use for destroyable cover,destroyable walkways, secret weapon drops, trap triggers, and much more. One thing I can't stand is the change they made to max item count so you can't destroy an item to make a same object spawn in another location.
Is that an MLG mindset being applied to Forge? Really? Hardcore forgers? Look at the featured maps of ForgeHub. Tell me how many of them include palettes as a central feature. Sure, there are a few good gimmick and minigame maps that we've seen (Hobo Heights and Palette Parade come to mind), but the vast majority are ascetically stunning, well merged maps with solid ground. Any palettes are, for the most part, unnecessary. Palettes are sloppy objects to include in a map, no matter how much fun they can be. I am going to reiterate my position here. First, pallets can strain the engine in a way few other objects can. Yes, I love it, but part of the reason it is gone is the same reason the flamethrower and firebomb grenades are gone. These numerous new (arguably over-detailed) objects, plus phasing (and z-fighting), plus sheer map size meant Bungie had to make some sacrifices. Would you have preferred the other big strains go? I can only imagine how many people would be upset when teleporters, shield doors, man-cannons, or fusion coils were no longer available. Besides, there are already some lag issues when LoS is unrestricted. Could you imagine that mess with a dozen pallettes? Basically I think there are two arguments here. One (the original) is that Bungie could have given us some more budget by involving less detailed objects. The other is that they should have given us better, cooler objects. Both are valid, but contradictory. The second argument has also been argued in a weaker fashion as of late. I must support the OP, for the most part.
You're correct of course, but there's no reason they couldn't include a new piece with a similar concept and less polygons. How about a plywood panel roughly the same dimensions as a pallet? It would basically be a 6-polygon object. I think Bungie just overlooked how heavily certain of these destructible/movable objects were used.
I would love it if they made a different themed and fixed forgeworld. But honestly, biggest gripe is the lack of scenery. Good Lord, they gave us cones, camping stools, crates, and barricades; and not enough of them at that (10?! 10 crates?!)
I didn't get to bent out of shape about all the problems you guys are pointing out because they are specific to the maps and I figured Bungie was definitely going to make other Forger friendly maps as DLC.
I really just want the ability to grab more than one object at once. Or some glue, or something. Maybe I just got spoiled by the Trials HD editor, but I'm tired of taking 45 minutes to move my base one grid point to the left, and being unable to just grab the whole base and move it at once.
Everyone just bitches to much, just be happy with what you have, why does everyone always have to have more, 2.0 is great so stop complaining...
I agree completely with OP, although I must say I still like forgeworld alot, it just could be better
Because we have been given less than what we had before. Features and objects have been removed. In the case of polygons and aesthetic details, less is more. The maps in Halo 2 were pretty simple. They played smoothly and looked just fine. Halo 3 was the first one to really cross the line.
Halo: Reach should have been shipped like ODST with 1 disc as JUST campaign and the other as multi-player, more expanded forge and other content. Bungie screwed us over to make money and we all know it. They knew we'd want a new Halo game "better" than Halo 3. And they BLAM!-ing screwed us over. It has come to my temporary undecided decision that I may go back to Halo 3.. And I hate Bungie. And just to state: I'm not a Cod/MWF player. I hate those games. They suck. because it could have been better fool! Added after 6 minutes: Something I hate about Forge 2.0 is The 45 Degrees not working when you tilt it down. Example: 45 Degrees wont go 45 Degrees tilted Down if it is in 45 Degrees of Direction. It will only go 45 Degrees tilted down if in 90 Degrees of Direction. That ruins maps limiting us to turn off rotation snap and doing a poor job of trying to tilt it 45 Degrees down in 45 Degrees of Direction. It SUCKS.
I agree with most of what's being said here. However, it is possible to use most of the budget and not have any framerate issues. you just have to be careful. when forging, you need to use your objects wisely. if you use too many on a particular spot, then the game has to render all of those polys, and that slows down your framerate. use the bigger objects as much as possible (same # of polys over a bigger space). be efficient, don't have too many objects overlapping in one spot, and you'll be fine. I used almost 99% of the budget on my map, including lights, and I have no framerate issues whatsoever, even when zooming with the sniper. and if anyone screwed us over to make money, it was microsoft, not bungie. microsoft determines the shipping date, after all. given another month or two to work on forge, who knows what would've come out?
What's with all the bungie hate? I mean yes, forge world could be more intelligently put together, and they could have left in more customs options, but they DID give us several things we asked for, coordinate editing and built in phasing inparticualr, so while forge world isn't the be all end all map of forge I'm sure Bungie can repair that with DLC.
Why should we pay for DLC to have repairs? R-Tard.. Added after 7 minutes: I wish they gave us a completely flat large blank map shaped like a cube and gave us simple FLAT 3D shapes to work with. No textures but color-changeable. THAT would be more useful than an asymmetrical medium-sized map like forge world. I'm guessing Bungie was thinking of the quote "If you can't make it good at least make it LOOK good."