I really dont think credit is necessary since he wasnt necessarily the first one to find this (my friends and i found this the day of release).
Where's your post (anywhere) on the interwebs regarding it? Credit goes for being the first to bring the idea into the public eye, regardless of how "common sense" it may seem
no where, i didnt bother posting anything considering i thought it was a rather obvious find, and i didnt say he wasnt the first to say anything publicly. I just said it wasnt necassary to give him credit. I meant no offence.
I quote myself because I'm awesome, and Forge Hub requires a minimum of five characters in every post.
Regardless of who found what first, it's still a fascinating concept, and a good find for anybody. I personally would use a soft-kill zone, giving players a few vital seconds in the water before they "drown." In that case, I'd also probably put the grid low enough so only the character's head would be above water. Pyro, the submarine idea is great, IMO. Now I'm working on finding a way to incorporate both the submarine and boat concepts together... And I might have a few ideas. How low is the natural water kill barrier? Would it be deep enough for a player to be completely submerged?
1. Players could survive the soft kill zone by continuously jumping to never spend more than a few seconds in it. 2. If colosseum walls were deep enough they probably wouldn't show significantly from the surface. With more piece variety, you could make part shallow and part deep. Also shield doors might work.
Hrm, true, didn't think about the jumping. Nevertheless, if the grid/wall/whatever were submerged deep enough, they wouldn't be able to jump "out" of the soft kill zone. It wuld make certain areas crossable (i.e., really small gaps) and certain areas "swimmable" (by allowing players to jump out of the killzone), but would make the deep areas treacherous. And yeah, I also was considering using multiple types of objects to achieve the different range of depths. A thought on that--I personally would build the underwater "environment" a bit above the surface of the water, and then just adjust the height of each piece the same distance under the water at the end. Provided everything is correctly snapped on the grid pre-submerging (stupid auto grid-snap), it would allow you to make sure everything looks correct and plays correctly (during the build of course) without having to deal with actually being in the water yourself.
Actually, probably not. The timer for soft kill zones and time spent outside of a soft safe area is semi-cumulative. Basically, if you keep jumping in and out of a zone like that, the max time you could do would be 15 seconds or so.
If you wanted to make certain areas swimmable, you'd have to make multiple kill barriers, that are exclusive of your swimmable areas.
Regardless of who first "found" this, thank you for posting it. It's an awesome setup, and I look forward to seeing how people can use this technique in creative ways. Nice work.
Exactly, does anyone really care who first found this anyways? I mean do people really remember who "first" found how to phase objects in Halo 3. It gets to be a thing that people can use, and there should be no need to credit.
I don't see why. Assuming that when making the underwater environment, you make certain areas shallow enough for someone to jump out ofthe killzone repeatedly to escape the countdown ("swimming"), and then you also make certain areas deep enough that a player could NOT jump out of the killzone and thus inevitably succumbing to the countdown, you could set one soft kill zone covering the entire map. What I didn't mean was that you could swim in certain areas and not in others--anywhere that would be shallow enough to jump out of the killzone would be a purposeful, swimmable area. I wouldn't make shallow areas thatcould be swam across as well as shallow areas that could not be, that would be unfair to the players--if it were inconsistant like that, the players (initially) wouldn't know which shallow areas could be navigated sans vehicles and which couldn't. While they would inevitably learn which areas they could swim across, the learning process would result in unnecessary deaths. I'd prefer to keep the realism and consistancy in tact rather than create something counter-intuitive.
Isn't this the principle of death teleporters? Why not just make a huge human-only teleporter and set the reciever in a killzone? Now you can do it on every surface.
It seems that a hard kill zone set slightly above any gven surface will accomplish the same result as a huge human-only death teleporter. The difference being that a hard kill zone would leave the aesthetics of the death relatively intact--the body dies and slumps down right where the player stands, as opposed to being teleported elsewhere and then dying. The difference wouldn't mean much to some I suppose, but I personally would want to keep the aesthetics of the death intact. EDIT: Another thought, is that this all could be done in a map situated on top of a number of colosseum walls designated as the "floor" of the map. Lowered areas could be colored differently (say, with a one-way wall with the red side facing upwards, or simply with a shield wall on it's side for a more subtle effect), and the hard kill zone could be placed with it's top just one unit or so over the lowered "floor," effectively producing an area the same as the boats-only area described here. These vehicle-only areas, used in various situations and potentially on any terrain/surface, have huge potential in terms of forging possibility.
The thing is, they would't simply be slumping over, but rather sinking, but I'd see how this could be a problem from the perspective of the person who is dying, but this can be solved by teleporting the person underneath the grid, so that their body ends up underwater.
I see what you mean--the dead would have a more apropriate "drowning" viewpoint, should they enter the water. I was thinking more along the lines of someone watching the death--in the killzone method, the body would fall down into the water the same as if they had been headshotted under normal circumstances or something. Depending on the depth of the grid, the death slump may appear to hit right under the surface of the water, or deeper. With the teleporter, while the "drowning" may look more aesthetically accurate for the suicide-player, to his/her teammates and opponents, they're body would simply disappear after landing in the water. Either way, it's an aesthetics issue, and at that point, it's more of a user preference thing. In terms of gameplay, both the killzone and death teleporter options achieve the same results.
True, although I think I may have come to a conlclusion, If shield doors (even the red side of 1-ways work) then you could have the body fall through. I think it would work with the red side becasue neutral objects fall through so if it is combined with a kill barrier, the dead body (which I'm assuming is classified as a neutral object) would fall through. I've seen soccer maps where the soccer ball passes through the red side because it is a neutral object
Good point. One-way shield doors would work well there in that case. The limiting factors in that case would be along the lines of budget use and map coverage (multiple shield doors vs. 1-2 grids), and the item limit of the shield doors themselves. Aesthetically, I'm wondering how deep the doors would have to be before the red lines became relatively inconspicuous.