Sandbox Orbituation Map Pack

Wow dude.. Thanks for that review.
I understand every point, and although I did look at removing the middle tier altogether, but found that reconnecting the map together again wouldn't work due to item limit and budget.

Also.. That massive hole was patched up, I must have forgotten to save it! God damn it >.<
Lmao..

I'm glad you guys liked it, and I kinda know what you mean about once losing the confusion the map creates it becomes that little less enjoyable, much like those maps made on 45 degree angles, although the camping for my games was never really much an issue as you often found yourself watching the radar waiting for someone and then jumping out attacking the wrong red dot and leaving yourself out in the open for an enemy behind you

But thanks for an amazing review.. I'll have to get you to review my other good maps if i ever make one lol

 

I downloaded the fist two maps as I'm really not interested in a Warlock remake (sorry) and I gave them a forge-through.

Paladin- The map is well built and your intentions were clear, but there are a few fundamental flaws I've noticed. First of all, the lack or railings worries me. You've got a good amount in the sniper tower and attempted to put some on the elbow but it's still pretty bare there. I would suggest adding as much as you can with whatever leftover budget you have. Secondly the map is very small, which is to be expected from a reimagining of guardian. My problem here is with the spawns, there's hardly any. I could understand the difficulty of placing spawns when there's not much safe spots to work with, but I would try adding some more if you don't want the 4v4s to be plagued with spawn-killing. However I didn't play the map so my words aren't exactly concrete. I like the map a good bit so far, but if you have the budget to make these changes it would definetly improve your map a good bit.

Secrecy- I don't really know what to say about this one. It's confusing as ****, but that is what you wanted. The map is again, well forged and the use of the crypt shaft (lol shaft ) is certainly creative. I'm not sure how spawns would work as some douche could camp the top teleporters with the rockets. However playing with a good group of people I'm sure that won't be a problem. My first impression is mixed and I'll try to get back to you after I get a game on it.

 

The following review is for Paladin.
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Enjoyment:

Paladin is a fitting name for a map that is a predecessor to the default map Guardian. Guardian, itself, is a spiritual remake of the fan favorite and classic MLG map Lockout. Both maps provide a similar gameplay experience unique to other maps. This experience shows some of the most strategical, dynamic gameplay and fully utilizes and expands the capability of Halo. Such maps are usually tweaked to be MLG landmarks. The idea of reinterpreting Guardian/Lockout has been around for a while and rightly so. Who wouldn't want a new map that plays similarly to these epic maps? Paladin is an attempt to recreate this type of map. However, Paladin fails to capture the idea of Guardian/Lockout. There are some key differences between Paladin and these default maps. This difference causes flawed gameplay. Guardian and Lockout have four main areas with a central platform. Paladin only has two. This causes simple base-to-base gameplay while Guardian and Lockout offer a much more diverse gameplay with a very obvious circular flow. The areas on Paladin that connect the towers to bottom mid are particularly useless and cause an imbalance. Those areas essentially replace blue and green. These areas are vital to the success of Guardian. The missing circular flow along with the sameness of each side due to the map being symmetrical causes the map to lose a great deal of diversity, and the map becomes dull. The dullness is amplified by the map's resultant non-fast paced gameplay. MLG maps are expected to be hyper-competitive. Guardian is a controversial MLG map especially with Slayer because it is said that the gameplay is too slow. Paladin does not remedy this issue. If anything, it worsens it. Objectives (hill locations) do not compliment the map and cause the gameplay to be extremely frustrating. There are also some annoying aspects of the map that come from poor construction or designing. Some players mentioned that the grav lifts were very annoying to use. Also, many ramps on the map are very steep.This frustrates players and limits grenade use. The jump ups from the lowest sniper level to the one above was also annoying. The interlocked column in bottom middle is awkward. It slows flow and limits the action that takes place there. Some objects placed are distracting to the core gameplay. The central obelisks pose an awkwardness that limits Sniper 3 to Sniper 3 encounters. Spawns weren't horrible, but they weren't good. Paladin attempts to use the same spawning system as Guardian. This means players spawn in one of the four main areas. This is flawed on Paladin because players that do not spawn in one of the towers are sitting ducks. Also, players frequently spawned on the lowest level of the bases which was open to fire from the opposite side. Such spawns stop the map from playing well and being enjoyable. The map is enjoyable to some extent, but it lacks some significant gameplay elements that are expected from MLG maps.



Balance:

Balance is very delicate thing, just waiting to be tipped over. Symmetry is often a mask that hides the imbalances within the map. Unlike Guardian and Lockout, Paladin is a symmetrical map that almost gives the illusion of balance. On first impressions, one may believe that Paladin is balanced. But after breaking down each section of the map, it can be seen that Paladin has some fundamental flaws. Once again, lack of diversity really limits the map's playability and balance. On Paladin, like other maps, players spawn in their base, their home. At this point in time, players are posed with a question. Should they leave or stay? Instead of placing players in a place that may guide towards what they want, they begin at the best place on the map. It provides the most power position on the map with the most powerful weapon. Players do not need to move from their position because it's the exact same thing on the other side and doesn't offer any new advantages. Players are only inclined to move across due to the presence of the enemy. Players generally stay at their base or move to the opposing team's base. There are two main routes with two lesser used ones.. Across the top and bottom. Bottom mid is traversed more due to the multiple entrances and mauler spawn. This gives us our third point of interest. These three points are all long one line. This causes player movement to be more simple and less dynamic. The alternate routes (elbow and lift) are used much less than what one would want. Areas should be relatively equal in use. This is not the case in Paladin. All areas are have a disadvantage to the Sniper Towers. The elbow and lift routes are neither quicker nor safer than the two main routes. There is an obvious imbalance between areas and routes. Players tend to prefer one area or route over another. This due to the core errors in the map's design. The flawed design is paired with a extremely simple, non-complimenting weapon set. The weapons do not at all promote player movement. Power Weapons are placed along the central line of flow. Instead of being game changing or at least sought after, the weapons seems tacked on as an addition to the gameplay not a part of it. The limited weapon set of MLG becomes more limited with this map's weapon set. Placement of the snipers don't seem to compliment the map's geometry and furthers camping of the tower. Mauler doesn't provide much. It's expected to provide a leg to stand on, so to speak, for a downed team, but the Mauler doesn't do much for the gameplay. It was found that the Mauler was not a very effective weapon. The spawns did not provide an unfair advantage, but they did provide an unfair disadvantage. Players often spawned in the same, open areas and would run for cover. Some other spawns were in safe areas such as the towers. These problems cause many imbalances throughout the map, and overall, the map isn't sufficiently balanced.



Durability:

Through all the games, there were no signs that map could be "broken". Being in the skybubble, it is completely impossible to exit the bounds of the map. There are also no areas that are reachable that should not be. Paladin does a good job of keeping players in the designated areas. However, there are some less durable aspects. In MLG, it is very important that nothing can be abused to give players an unfair advantage. Specifically, the lifts can be abused on this map. Players can stay in the lift going up and down with a good line of sight. The remained unaffected by grenades because the lift is suspended above the bottomless abyss. The only way to reach the player is to jump off the map towards the lift which is no pretty much useless due to its inhabitant. The durability of the spawn system also comes into question. The map's spawns are inherently predictable because of the four areas. Players can usually gain control of one or more areas forcing players to spawn in predictable locations. The leads to spawn-camping. Though inescapable, certain aspects can be abused.



Aesthetics:

Aesthetics don't make the map, but the creators definitely put in the extra time for it. The map is very smooth and if there are any bumps, they are very minute and unnoticeable. No mistakes in forging lead to unemployable gameplay. Everything is well made and everything fits together well for the most part. Paladin utilizes lights to designate team areas. Each areas is distinct, so players always know their location, and with the lights, they know their side. Some pieces feel a bit awkward and in some cases distracting. Most notably they are the top obelisks, obelisks near the lifts, the bottom mid column, and the wall slit used railings. Though useful to some extent, these pieces feel out of place. At bottom mid, the column and wall slit railings seem to make the area to feel unappealing and clogged. Deleting these would really open the area in a good way. The slits also allow grenades to pass through them which is unwanted. Though in need of some changes, Paladin offers good aesthetics.



Orginality:

Paladin will never be a famous original map, because too much of the map is derived from other maps. All in all, it is an interpretation of another map. The two main structures are almost exact copies of the tower from Guardian which is already a remake. The weapon set is very unoriginal and copies Guardian. However, this type of interpenetration hasn't been seen very often. It's symmetry is often unseen in these reinterpretations. Paladin does attempt at some interesting MLG gameplay. It is far from the stereotypical MLG design. The map does have some gameplay that isn't really seen in most MLG maps. Though offering some uniqueness, Paladin essentially isn't anything new due to it being a reinterpretation.



Recap:

Enjoyment: 5/10
Balance: 4/10
Durability: 6/10
Aesthetics: 7/10
Originality: 6/10
Total: 28/50

 

In all honesty, I've stopped reading that review due to the fact I completely disagreed with EVERYTHING said to the point where I stopped.

I do not understand how the gameplay is slow and boring?
I don't understand how the Hill locations do not compliment the map?
Also, How does the map not have 4 areas? Just because the areas are symmetrical and not walled off means they don't count?
Personally, and matter of opinion to the 20+ players i've played with on this map, the grav lifts weren't an issue.

The only thing I agree with only minorly in the first section of enjoyment is that the ramps are steep, but these cannot be changed as the whole map would need to be changed. bearing the steepness in mind, Heretic has just as steep (if not steeper) ramps up to the "pink" tower, which just means the players need to adapt their gameplay style to the map.

The map requires utmost skill to spawn trap and fully control the map. Whilst testing 4v4 various times (with or without b3nw, and yes with the majority of people who play MLG daily) the map was just as difficult to spawn trap correctly as maps like The Pit or Guardian.

I've found in at least 95% of the games i've played on this map, the gameplay is as fast paced as Heretic and Onslaught even with Slayer playing. You're literally seconds from action on Spawn Guaranteed. Any faster gameplay, and you may as well be playing in the Octagon!!!!!

Also the wall slits at bottom mid were intentionally put there to prevent camping and experienced players with map knowledge can utilise the holes for well placed grenades as it's too small to literally throw a grenade over the walls and expect it to drop at the right places.


Overall, I'd be lying to say it was a good review. In the end, it's opinion against opinion and even though i'm not the creator of this map and had very little input... I feel it wasn't a fair review against a map many people openly enjoy playing MLG games on.

 

I don't want to do a point by point response and put words in Scope's mouth, but I've got a few things I'd like to say.

This has the same issue Guardian does in Slayer pacing. Either team can stick to one side of the map and just take potshots at the other. Guardian's asymmetrical camo gave the disadvantaged side of the map a way to break a setup against the sniper, while Paladin only has two snipers to cross map each other.

Depending on the players, the game can be intense with both teams pushing constantly, but if either team decides to hold their position, gameplay can grind down to a sniper duel.

It only has two useful areas. The low sides are defenseless.

As was stated in Scope's review, spawning on the low sides made you a sitting duck. Paladin lacks the cover and height available at Blue or Green on Guardian, so your only option is to immediately try and get to the nearest tower while under fire from above.

 

I just had a quick run through Paladin and while the majority of it was very nice, I found that the ramps at the back of each "base" leading from snipe 1 to snipe 2 were far too vertical. I also thought that rails were necessary along the elbows as I often find myself falling there even WITH railing. Finally, the mancannons could possibly have been a little more aesthetically pleasing, though that is just me picking at things now.

Overall, a good, competitive map.

 

Though I can sorta see where you're coming from, I stand by my points.

As Ladnil said, you can stay at your base and shoot across the map. It felt slow to me. Nothing near to MLG Foundry maps. I don't think anyone can prove this either way. I based my review off the games I played, not yours, so our perspectives could be different.

Hill Locations- I hated the hill locations as it would make spawning weird (with spawning inside the hill). Every time I tried to hold it down, I died by the constant grenades. It was so hard to maintain. Thus, dragged out game.

Regarding areas, I say it has 2 because the lower areas are particularly useless. On Guardian each location even green and blue give advantages over areas and create paths that enhance flow. Your map is also smaller.

I know I can seem like a bad guy for this review, but I'm displeased you would say it's a bad review. I did my best to analyze it. I asked players that helped me test it, and took some of their perspectives. Also, I'd like to mention the rating is by no means bad. In fact, it's above average. Thanks for the appreciation if our opinions differ.

 

Yeah.. I was in a particularly bad mood that day.

It's not a bad review at all to be honest, it's rather thorough.. But just of the bad points. It seems to have picked up a lot of negativity on the map because its a guardian re-interpretation, which basically means, its very loosely based on Guardians design.

If B3NW had gone at it completely different and just advertised it as its own MLG map, people would have said "WOW this reminds me of guardian" yet the playstyle, layout, gameflow would not have been compared to guardians because theyre two entirely different maps.

I kinda touched up on these points in the circular flow thread that was discussed as paladin was an example map for circular flow. For the map, MLG King generates the flow and forces players to continuously move (thus the campfest should in theory never happen) and with the hills being open (Like ALL MLG hills) just makes the map harder to control. As you so specifically put, the lower areas are "useless" they offer no control whatsoever... that is why you receive points for controlling them, because its Rewarding.

Anyway, I apologise for my rant before... It wasnt fair on me to post that comment to be honest. Sorry.

 

Secrecy interested me. And I remember seeing Palidin a while before it was finished.
I'm happy with the way it turned out. Good Job B3NW