Last wednesday I was at my school where I heard a talk about what is right from wrong and how we as people make everday choices based on our morals. Well I want to know in your opinions what makes something wrong. Is lying wrong? If so why is it wrong? I am curious to see what other people think of morality and what they base there choices on. I want to gain a cultural perspective on things and possibly educate those that may be misinformed. So fellow forgehubbers, how do you tell what is right from wrong?
Well, the ideas of right and wrong are based on each persons different perspective. Sure, there are general societal ideas that guide people, but each person has a different view. Depending on where they were raised, what kind of family they had, and other stuff like that, that also affects their morals. To some people, lying is a horrible sin. To others, it's something they're perfectly fine with. To the rest, it's something that is acceptable in certain situations. There are some people who think that the end justifies the means. Others don't care about where they're going as long as they do good along the way. It's all a matter of perspective.
You say perspective, eh? Well then you just justified the Holocaust and have taken your right to critisize 9-11. But I can respect your idea. I just don't agree with it.
1) Did I ever say what my perspective was? No. I'm Jewish and I thoroughly believe the Holocaust was wrong. Also, I live about 20 minutes outside of New York City. I was at my dads office, which is near the top floor of the Veterans Affairs Hospital in NY (He's the chief of medical ethics there) and I SAW the towers fall. I SAW all the patients being rushed into the VA because it was the closest hospital. I SAW it all. Don't even ****ing begin to say I can't talk about it. 2) Here is a quote I found very interesting. Noam Chomsky said:
I did not mean to offend you, but the point still stands. I did not say that you can't talk about, it was a horrible thing. But morally speaking why was is it horrible, the terrorists didn't think so. But if you really do think that morality is based on people's perspective then it would be hippocritical to critisize the terrorrists. If you base morality on global perspective then who is right and who is wrong? Who becomes the moral authority to set the standards. Anyways lets keep this simple, this is not a thread meant for emotional input. Is lying right or wrong and why?
As far as anything that matters, beyond this husk of a body and irrelevant culture, there is no right and wrong. Only circumstance and time.
I can criticize them BECAUSE of the fact that I think morality is based on perspective. From my perspective, what they did was wrong. From theirs, it was right. But, I'm not looking at it from their point of view, I'm looking at it from mine. Therefore, I can criticize them. This type of argument also brings in to play the idea of free will vs. predestination. If someone made the choice to do something, based on their opinion, then you should be able to criticize them. But, if someone had no control over their actions, could you really criticize them? They couldn't NOT do it, so wouldn't it make more sense to criticize the person/being who made them do it? I, personally, believe in free will. Therefore, since I think it was the terrorists fault, I feel perfectly valid in criticizing their actions.
Very interesting thoughts Nitrous, but if you would like to contribute to this thread then please, pretty please answer the question. Anyways, Nitrous, it seems like that you think there is no morality. Would it be safe to assume that you base choices on the consequnes at the time? It seems that if you were put under certain circumstances that you would make a choice one way or another. Yes whisper you can critisize, but that wouldn't be very sensible. Are you right or are the men who flew the planes. An interesting insight Nitrous, but lets keep back on the topic: Is lying right or wrong and why?
What I am saying is the choices we make, have no significance whatsoever. Maybe for some. Tomorrow will always come, even if the light of the sun doesn't. I don't think lying is wrong, but I do think telling the truth is the best route to go by.
alright id say lying isnt entirely wrong. Altho id say everyone has the right to deserve the truth, there r occassions where lying IMO is definitely justified. For example, u dnt tell tht there outfit is hideous because thts wrong even if its tru, u lie... if a map looks horrible, i try to find some sort of positive about it nd comment on it. So yea im lying when i say i love the map but im also trying to be nice about it... idk, sort of lost my pint but what im saying is lying isnt always morally wrong, its the circumstances tht matters...
Nitrous, why do you think that lying is not wrong? I am just trying to gain an understanding on things. Not really the circumstances of the situation, but the consequences of your actions. So in any given situation you will react according to the consequences that you for see? Am I understanding you correctly on this?
I have to disagree. That is why the world WILL progress. The people who have advanced society are, for the most part, free thinking radicals. If they just conformed to the ideas of society, they wouldn't have done anything special. It's not about who is right. Morality is about my opinion. Are you a religious person? I'm just wondering whether that's an idea from your religion or what. Have you ever heard the saying that 'The flapping of a birds wings can cause a storm half the world away.' or something like that? Or what about in an election. The votes are tied. One persons vote can change the outcome. Aldo, Nitrous, this is sort of off-topic, but do you accept the idea of global warming?
Lying is wrong if you do it for the wrong reasons. If you say that someones idea is good while you think it is bad, that is bad but not as much as lying to get what you want. If anyone gets hurt while you are lying that means it was bad.
Because it just doesn't matter. It's so trivial. That speech should be regarded so highly, that we have to say exactly what needs not to be said. No matter how truthful.
I have to disagree. If your friend is asking you how she looks, and if she isn't a totally shallow person, than she is asking you because she respects your opinion and values how you feel. Therefore, you're hurting her by lying to her, even if she doesn't know you're lying. If you tell her the truth, that she doesn't look good, she has no reason to complain because you answered the question she asked truthfully.
alright i can see tht being tru to... but again its still just opinion which is what this thread nd everything being said in it is about.
I'm of the mind that, while human morality is generally subjective, there ARE some set moral rules (though even those can be bent). It can be argued that KILLING is wrong, but the exception to this could be that by killing one man you would save the lives of several hundred. A utilitarian perspective, certainly, but can anyone deny that if they got the chance to kill Hitler before the holocaust, they would do it with the knowledge of what he would bring about? It could also be argued that STEALING is morally reprehensible; however, if you, by stealing, ensure that a few children will live another day, would that not be considered just cause? Ergo, it would seem that what separates the moral from the immoral is whether or not the cause/consequences and the intentions behind such are just.
Exactly, which is why, even though it's fun to debate, a thread like this doesn't have much point. Since everything we're debating is opinion, no one can be right and no one can be wrong, except in another person's eyes.