So, after a less than a perfect release of the Forge Academy beta that didn't go exactly as expected, but definitely was a lot of fun and I feel ended up as a positive, I started talking to some various people. I think their main concern was having to get on at a set time, and making sure they had to be there and so on and so on. I know there are a lot of people who really want to learn how to design maps and such, but can't necessarily do so in a Forge class, haven't noticed the Forge Academy beta, or didn't get in. So, my idea. Over some kind of text chat (Skype I'm thinking), we could have everyone who's interested when we start in a big chat. We'd have the guy typing out stuff, and you could type back answers or questions or whatever. Then at the end, the chat log could be posted for those who didn't make it to see. A few concerns, however: a) in my opinion, a good amount of it involves "being there" and taking in the environment or part of the map personally, in the map. You could be by yourself but I think watching someone else's screen wouldn't feel the same. b) Moderation possibilities. I really don't want people going crazy or having a discussion while someone else is trying to talk, or interrupting the flow the conversation over and over. Having moderators, or at least being able to boot, would help probably. c) With no audio or video, it can be very hard to explain something that you mean. That could be extremely frustrating, on both sides of the discussion. d) How many people would care? What topics would need to be gone over? What approach do you take towards attempting to teaching what you know about those topics? Would people notice and take it to heart? Anyway, leave any ideas or comments or whatnot please! I had a ton of fun with my Forge Academy classes and feel a larger scale might be better for the whole of ForgeHub.
This being a design class rather than just a forge technique class, are you going to work with sketchup or just look at maps in game? If you're looking at using sketchup, Adobe has a great online meeting/desktop sharing program. Only the host needs to install anything on their computer, everyone else just gets it in their browser. You can save chat logs and all that if needed.
I'm usually working with design in general, or design mentality. Something on that order. I don't use Sketchup (though I really should), either, just ingame mainly.
A lot of professors post their lectures on youtube. People that could not attend the class for whatever reason could still essentially experience it. This could be applied to forge academy. Just have one person in the party use a capture card. Then after the class you can post it on here! This would: - control the class sizes - chit chat that would occur with large classes would be cut - Allow the people in the class to ask questions that will be answered and recorded via the capture card (probably similar questions that other people would have that watch later) - Additional classes could be held to address any hard questions
You could use something like Live stream to speak to the 'class' and people could use the chat box underneath the video to ask questions and such.
Technically, you guys would be right, yes. The thing is, I've been notoriously bad when I know I'm being recorded. I honestly have no idea why but I hate being recorded. I usually end up being fairly shy or overthinking what I meant to say. However, I could just try to get over it and try it, if there's nothing better to try, thanks for the ideas.
I tried doing it that way. Unless the student is very serious about learning they don't pay attention to the stream, and even if they do most people are slow typers and can't/don't want to ask questions.
I don't think the major concern IMO is the slow typers, it's more the people who actually care and are willing to ask questions and answer and think productively. I'm not sure there are enough people to do so, and if there is, how would be the best way to go about teaching to them. That's the question.
It would have to be an interactive course where there's an even give and take from the student. Yes we can sit up there and lecture about how we design, but that doesn't teach them how to design on their own per se. What we need is to find students who are passionate about design and are willing to do work with us to further their skills. I still like the idea of a mini-series of YouTube lecture combined with skype/livestream lectures.
I was thinking about this today, and here's what I've come up with. At its core, forging a map is about architecture, its a fusion of functional engineering with aesthetic appeal with considerations made for budget and materials. So how do they teach architecture?(actual question, I've never taken an architecture class) I would imagine its like learning any other creative skill where at first its all about learning definitions and how-to, which this site already has, and then it turns and makes the focus on examining famous and interesting buildings. Students would learn why things in great buildings are done the way they are, and what effect the individual design aspects have on the whole. Then they'd move into doing their own designs constantly, with different constraints and instructions provided by the teacher on what they're supposed to be making. Repeat the doing your own designs over and over while continuing to write critiques of other designs until graduation. I think the part of that we don't do here that could be done in a classlike setting is having the students write their critiques and explanations of other designs. For example, if they can explain why Narrows has a big arched structure and what effect it has on gameplay, they'll be able to apply that to their own maps. Or more vaguely have them explain from their own experiences the key aspects of their favorite maps. So I'm thinking every week you make up an assignment for students to examine this, or explain that, or come up with their own solution to the other thing and PM their answer to the teacher. Probably limit it to like 400 words or something for your own sanity. Then give each a grade and some feedback, and post the best or your own answer as an example. Alternate assignments could be something like "describe what you would do to forge Standoff into a better Team Snipers map." Something like that would work because they have to demonstrate an understanding of the flaws in the map, and come up with a creative solution. Even if their solution actually gets built and tests horribly, its the thought process that you're grading, not the results.
Interesting, Ladnil. I like where you're going there, however my main problem is showing stuff on the map. I'll generally be using Bungie maps. My thought is that I'll go through my basic layout of Map Design Mentality, a class I've given twice. I go through the basic ideas of what constitutes a good design, trying to focusing on various parts of it instead of all being "RISK VS REWARD LOLOLOL" (I hate when people say "Risk vs Reward"). You bring up a great way to make it usable as a larger scale class, but the main problem is still the same...what medium do we go over to make it efficient and good for everyone?
ladnil's idea would be very good, you mean, teach uploads a video (perhaps about lines of sight?) and at the end, they set a question (how would you make standoff a better team snipers map?) then all student pm the answer (needz moar interlocks?)? i'd love a system like that, much more flexible for viewing the class, and questions can be pm'ed also
Well, I would think that the feedback and discussion in the assignment thread would eliminate the problem of having to be there and solve the efficiency. And the purpose of PMing the answers is so that feedback can be personal and people aren't just parroting what they saw someone else say. ...I think that answers your question based on what I've got in my head for this thing, your last post is a little confusing to me And yeah Moran, thats the idea. Insane or whoever else gives a little lesson with screens or video or whatever, then there's a critical thinking question with no single correct answer that's supposed to test the students' understanding. And like I said, it isn't what the answer is that is truly being graded, its the thought process explaining why the student thinks their idea would work. If you said that walling all 8 players inside a single base on Standoff would make it a better snipes map, and defended it well, that could theoretically be a correct answer.
talking at insane there? if so i think i got it the medium would be an embedded video on a forum, subsection in for 101 "forge academy". It would contain a vid showing the lesson + assignment, that way, you can see anytime needed. Then answers would be sent in pm to stop copying and such things...
What I mean is that having something written out or in a video is nearly impossible because this is more of an idea than a "this is good, this is bad". The idea is to understand ideas instead of defining things that are more of a matter of looking at maps in general in a different way. The way I usually run it is to start with defining what it is, showing a few examples of what it is and what it isn't, what I consider to be good. Then I do the majority of the rest with rhetorical questions, mainly "what if" questions. I could rethink the way I do it but I think that's the best way to truly have them understand. In that way, I'm not very enthused about doing a video, because it only gets you the very minimum (and usually very artificial) understanding of the topic.
Defining it is simple. The "what if"s are what build your mentality and eventually give you a better understanding...definitions are very, very easy to do and learn, but really don't help much. For example: Lines of sight: any place you can see, shoot, or grenade (any form of sight or damage) from any given place to any given place. Theoretically, not much to it. Much more important is learning how to apply it.
hmm.. well using lines of sight as an example, you could put things like: "What if the main area is curved like narrows, so at first you cant see the enemy, but simply walking makes the visible? What if you build lines of sight around a main object or power weapon?" just make a list at the end thats thought provoking? if thats not what the problem is, i really havent a clue what you mean.
Those are both definition questions, and not really a big deal to understand. The main question is "why" on everything, how it could be different, and what it would be like. What if it was different? We don't have a solid answer to that unless we have the actual map designer here. Which we don't. The question is...how to do this? I think it needs to be interactive....but Xbox Live is so limited and there's no way to have people who weren't there also be able to be a part of it.