The bad stays why?

Currently, it sounds like you are just angry. Provide concrete evidence of the higher quality of your map in comparison to the popular maps, then I will consider your argument valid. Although I do agree with you for the most part, and do share your pain to some extent.

 

I feel the same. I see maps that are only basic items thrown down, without geomerging, interlocking, or other forging techniques. I see horrible spawns, very lazy maps, getting the most replies. Then I see the better maps, with beautiful forging, well, thought-out design - dying.

I'm not saying I'm an awesome forger, but I put tons of time into my maps, briefly going over flowpaths and such. I've posted two maps here at Forgehub, and they get like 6 replies - mostly inbetween me and another person.

I don't know why this happens, but it pisses me off.

 

A few thoughts off the top of my head.

1. If you are serious about competitive map design, I suggest moving away from infection. Balancing an infection map takes a good concept, knowledge of player behaviour and a ridiculous amount of testing to achieve a balanced result. Putting together a competitive map requires a deep understanding of the game, its nuances, and a thorough analysis of how your map geometry promotes player behaviour, paths and encounters so you can arrive at a satisfying result. You will still require several builds and multiple testing sessions for each - the testers guild can help you to arrange these. Ask yourself if you are really following these steps to their fullest.

2. Correctly promoting your map is key. Before you even think about preview posts you should be organising testing sessions on early beta builds of your map. This has a double benefit in that if you maintain a consistent pattern of tests with a variety of players, each one will potentially have a deeper appreciation for your map and you can leverage this when you come to promoting it to the wider community. Secondly, your personal reputation and general behaviour affects the response to your map. Thirdly, the map preview and final map post itself. The best of these will immediately draw the casual browser in to reading through your entire post. With this in mind you should be spending a few hours on your post alone (some take even longer, especially if they're including a video). Learn to use image editing software, and take your time. First impressions are critical!

3. DO NOT RUSH ANYTHING. Even if you want to show everyone your map, it is not ready. It's never ready - improved, hopefully, but not perfect. Be critical of yourself and take the time to sit and think about your next steps, and long term plan for getting your map to completion. Make it the best it can be - and maybe try to make it a little unique, too.

4. Realise that ultimately, you should enjoy the process of creating your map and that public recognition is a secondary benefit of that process being successful. If you want to take your design work further, I suggest getting hold of modelling software and a game you can mod, such as Unreal.

 

I think its because of the fact that everyone tells them what is wrong with it, causing it to stay at the top for awile. A good example is that one in casual maps with the wraith. Thats been there for about 2 weeks and it keeps geting bumped up because no one reads the previous replys which say the same thing they type as well...

 

I think someone thinks too highly of their own maps :v:

Yes, some maps get too much attention for the wrong reasons and they normally get locked but the ones where your sat there with your friends like OHH HHEMM GEE THIS MAP R BE TERRIBLE. Thats probally coz your sat there and not playing. Those maps are more about gameplay than great forging, theres two categories, Awesome Gameplay and Amazing forging, I garantee your maps wont fit into either of those categories, it may be good gameplay and good forging but that isnt up to feature standards. Do us all a favour and instead of moping around going woe is me. Actually go and and do some better forging.

 

I completely agree with Shock here, since this the process I go through with my maps (except maybe the well decorated map post), but more important...

^This. Most maps of poorer quality always get the most comments in the map forums because people WANT to point out your map's flaws. It's been a problem since the day the site became popular, although it's been getting a bit worse since the beginning of this year. In reality, there's nothing you can do about it, and there is a way to look at it optimistically. If your map receives few replies, but ones that compliment your map, you know your map is a good one.

 

With the recent crackdown on spam posts it's a lot easier for people to criticize bad maps than it is to write a few positive things about a maps gameplay(typically because people don't dl a map and then go play on it then return to the post to leave a review) and they can't imediately say something off the pictures.

Making a video definitely helps, it allows the player to see the map in a more 3d sense. Pictures alone only go so far.

In the end you should be making maps that you enjoy, having other people like it should be second priority.

 

Well, since we're doing numbers...

1. Make a map for you. By that I mean, forge a map the way you want, and if others don't like it, **** 'em. Forge because YOU like the outcome. Post it because you would like to share the enjoyment you get while playing the map. If other players don't share that enjoyment, move on.

2. If you map is good enough, it'll get noticed. Sure, good maps don't always get a lot of attention, but great maps will. It doesn't matter how much hype you build, or any of that stuff. If you create a great map, people will comment on it.

 

/sarcasm

I love how you give him so many tips to making sure his map isn't completely buried under horrible maps. The fact that you can't just setup a system that checks each thread before it is published to see if it follows the rules is just great. Instead, you take the problem head-on and tell every single person how you have to do this and this and this because you are too lazy to make a single change, even though it has been presented multiple times in the customer service forum. Hey, why was that forum put there again?

/end sarcasm

 

It is a pain to see things like this happen to my maps as well. I mean, I rarely report people but I had to last night because it pissed me off that somebody necrobumbed 2 maps and bumped 2 others which pushed my map, Duncan Hills, out of the first page. But it's not just that people are posting more on bad maps, I personally get very annoyed when people argue about a problem within the map with the creator(s) or another person. For example, in the map, The Pilory, there was one person who posted 6 times on the same map because of an arguement that he couldn't admit defeat to. While I believe that The Pilory is a good map, I don't believe that it should overshadow other maps out there. Even in my maps I think it's wrong, The Hollow shouldn't have 50+ comments and it makes me feel like my other maps aren't agnoledged as well as maps I thought were a lot better.

But like others have said, this problem is an old one.

sarcasm

I love how you criticize something you have no knowledge of, as well as how you shot down these tips cause they're not helpful what so ever. I think we should have a parade for your genious and dance as we make you a big cake with "I love Exoticnature!" on it.

/sarcasm

 

We are discussing the quality of maps, not their breaking basic posting rules. When the latter happens, it is dealt with efficiently by the moderators.

There is no 'system' we could develop that could detect whether a map was 'good' or not. To suggest such a thing is beyond ridiculous.

As for your verging into ad hominem, perhaps you should take a moment to think through your posts before submitting them, else you embarrass yourself further by attacking me personally.

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There have been some good points made, the chief of which that average maps gain the least feedback/interest - problem maps get a wave of negative comments, and top tier maps get a wave of praise. Rebalancing that seems to me to be crucially important, and I'd appreciate any suggestions you all have that might help us shift it back towards that more healthy state.

 

Well, for starters you could try to code a program that will detect if a map post and screenshot has pictures or not. I'm not sure if vbulletin would allow you to do that and if it does, From my programming experience (haha high school, not great) it would be hard, but that would be a large step to what you want.

To OP. Honestly, does it really matter that much to you. I don't really like ShaddoBlade that much (doubt you care) but I'm definately agreeing with him on this one. Make maps because you enjoy it. If people don't like yours but like others well ****'em

 

We could do that by porting the map database functionality across to the main boards quite easily, but the problem with requiring an image in order to post is that it tends to lead to people uploading random images (or offensive images) instead, out of spite for the 'system' that won't let them post. We saw that with the map database earlier in the year, and it's one of the reasons we've restricted its use until we can reboot the whole project.

This is a pretty difficult problem to tackle. I'm confident we can make some progress if enough people contribute, however.

 

Actually, I think that's a minor detail that's generally dealt with fairly efficiently by the staff. A problem? Sure, but nowhere near THE major concern IMO.

Even suggesting that we "shouldn't allow bad maps" is absolutely ridiculous, even if it was possible. As long as people follow guidelines, we've given everyone an equal chance to be successful. Didn't get more e-fame for your awesome mapz0rz? Well....at the moment, it's just "too bad". It really shouldn't be a concern at all when making a map, it just restricts you and makes you pissed off when you don't get the fame (that really doesn't amount to anything) you feel you rightly deserve. Now, I'm not saying we could theoretically improve on this point, but allowing everyone equal chances whilst giving the "better maps" more coverage is something that's feasible, somewhat. And please don't suggest "a section where all the good maps go". I've that awful idea over 9000 times...at least...

 

Thats true, I didn't hink of that. Well, NOrmally if a sub par map comes in, I would look at the pictures and be able to detect what kind of gameplay would it give and what things could be changed (geometry wise, flow wise, very obvious weapon wise) but I would probably get infracted. The problem is a lot can't download maps to see what can change because we don't have the time.

It is minor, but It would be a little step. Nonetheless, your second paragraph is right. People should forge because they like it, not for fame.