I don't think no more map packs will be coming out for halo 3. But for halo reach they should make a multi-player 'classics' map pack CD where all the 'classic' maps from halo 1,2 and 3 are remade.
Especially when the Halo 3 disc in ODST says "Complete Halo 3 Multiplayer Experience". Personally i'm sick of remakes. Heretic was the only good move they have made, because interior maps like that tend to work regardless, and i personally thought Midship was actually slow when you had less than 4-6 people. With super jumps and increased player speed, you can fly around Heretic easily. An Ivory Tower remake would probably suck. It was a fun map to play, on things like Territories, CTF and Snipers, but it was still riddled with flaws. Why should we pay for a map that has already had half of it's design process done, and is riddled with already known flaws, when we could be taxing Bungie with coming up with a design that takes elements from Ivory Tower (Large atmospheric room, tight interior corridors leading into open exterior balconies) and make a map that is fresh and new.
Bungie sucks at rehashing old ideas and trying to turn them into new ideas. The map dev's they have now aren't nearly as talented as the ones they had in the halo 2/halo:ce days. Personally I would rather have maps from a generation of exceptionally talented map designers than the current generation of artists (errr i mean map designers). Let's look at some examples: Assembly is a rehash of Derelict/Desolation, and a LOT of people despise this map. For one thing the whole map is the same damn color, there's also a lot of design flaws that they introduced. Valhalla is a rehash of Coagulation/Blood Gulch, and a lot of purists of the original hate valhalla. It has, again, it's own swarm of problems. Bungie spends so much time making it visually appealing that they forget how some aesthetic inclusions can make a map totally broken. The one map that isn't a rehash is The Pit, which is probably the only good map of halo 3. Other maps that are rehashes but still acceptable include Construct (Colossus) and Guardian (Lockout). But as we've seen from Blackout is that bungie can turn an A+ map, add their twist to it and turn it into a B map. So I'm hesitant to say that remaking maps is even a good idea anymore.
for the most part, I agree with you mick. Although I think that longshore is a noteworthy original map. and bungie did succeed with their reimagining of sidewinder. Also, the hatred of blackout is extremely dependant on having played lockout before blackout. As for maps that do need remakes, I think that bungie needs a few more btb maps, like terminal or headlong, which were both staples of halo 2.
Longshore is a mix between headlong and Hang 'em High. It's still a good map but not entirely original.
Did Bungie say that they specifically looked to those two maps when creating it? Because if not, then the comparison is wholly based on a few structural similarities, and then one could say that no map made in any game for a very long time has been original because there are only so many kinds of structures that can be done that work well. Every map could be said to be a mix of elements from of other maps.
I'm pretty sure Longshore is original, though since it's essentially the same designers, they probably draw inspiration from their older creations. I'm not a big fan of remakes. Bungie does a much better job of original maps in general. Halo 2 and 3 are NOT the same game, they can't just keep making remakes. I'm fine with a few, but, like...half of the maps we have are bad remakes...
Bungie does rehash a lot of their old ideas. I never said it was a remake it's just not an entirely new idea the way The Pit is. They might not have been looking at the map but you can see a lot of similarities, especially to Hang 'em high, which is one of their most recognizable maps. It's easy to look at the comparisons between the maps and see which one is the successor to which original. Assembly - Derelict/Desolation Avalanche - Sidewinder remake Blackout - Lockout Remake Cold Storage - Chill Out Construct - Colossus Guardian - Lockout Heretic - Midship Remake Last Resort - Zanzibar Remake Longshore - Headlong/Hang 'em High Orbital - Longest/Elogation Valhalla - Coagulation/Blood Gulch Snowbound - Beaver Creek/Battle Creek You get the picture.
I disagree. The only aspects that could link Derelict/Desolation to Assembly could also link Wizard/Warlock or Foundation to it. Assembly could be considered 4-base, and they are all completely seperate. Derelict/Desolation is 2 base, and the paths that link to the base span the other two sides of the map. You could argue that it is only a small gameplay significance but it makes a huge difference in team games. You can hold out your base in Assembly where it was near-impossible in Derelict/Desolation. I so not enjoy playing Assembly at all. The sole reason being Halo 3's increased player jump and speed. Traversing the map or moving from low to high ground is far too easy and thus unrewarding. Because of the quick movement, the map plays like a brawl. I disagree again. I think Bungie initially developed Valhalla merely because Halo 3 needed a map that had a similar style and loadout as Blood Gulch/Coagulation. I think you are not looking deep enough, because the only thing the two share are the linear shape, 2 base structure and major use of natural terrain for geometry. Valhalla and Blood Gulch/Coagulation play entirely different, and i feel that, although very entertaining, Blood Gulch/Coagulation was probably one of the most problematic maps of the series. There is no way you can flaw Valhalla when you hold Blood Gulch/Coagulation so high. I know of about 4 points where you can get out of the map up to the cliff above, and there is a severe lack of cover in a whole host of locations, not to mention that Bungie broke the golden rule of not putting priority spawn points looking clearly at each other. The map was also flawed in that it was 1 sided. For one the side with the hill behind it had a much stronger advantage over the other in Halo 2, and if you were on the red team and got up onto the clifftops, you were practically invisible against the rock wall because of the colour. It might sound subtle but it was ridiculous. And.. I disagree. I don't see where at all you link Construct to Collussus, excluding their frist letter. First of all Collosus was symmetrical, didn't feature underground tunnels wihch are so crucial to Construct, and didn't provide many locations that allowed a height advantage to gain supremecy. I suppose you could link them in that you generally fight for control of the center, for power weapons and good cover, but is that not the same for most maps? Narrows? Valhalla? Lastly, Collosus was very corridor based fighting. You were always pushing the enemy somewhere. When i play Construct, it's more a case of control, however this may be due to the map being considerably smaller in length and width, making up for it in height. On to Guardian, where i do agree with you in that they both share many similar features. However it always seems naive to just flatly compare Guardian to Lockout. Even though the overall game seems to flow the same (pushing for Snipe tower usually), how we get to that is totally different indeed. Lastly i must bring up how Halo 2 and Halo 3 are totally different. Guardian on Halo 3 plays different entirely from Lockout on Halo 2, simply because Lockout on Halo 3 would play entirely different than on Halo 2. Oh.. erm. With Blackout your right. Also this 'Rehash' comparing of maps thing is questionable. There are basic features and concepts that work in maps, and when they work, there is no reason not to adapt them and move them to other maps. That's how map design works. The way you are judging them is on a superficial basis anyway, the way maps you are linking together feel or play is in no way alike (Elongation/Orbital, Colossus/Construct, Coagulation/Valhalla, Derelict/Assembly). Anyway, i hope you don't take the lengthy reply to suggest some rant or anger, i just think that it's difficult to properly state your opinions without going into them in detail.
Just because they aren't identical doesn't mean they didn't start with an idea (such as an old successful map) and build on it. That's my whole point. Also if you break down the map to style you see the comparison. You're too caught up on the minor details and need to look at the map as a big picture idea. Guardian, Lockout, Blackout (Room Based) Construct, Collossus (U shaped) (this one is a bit of a stretch but they share some obvious similarities, move the bridge from the two purple rooms to the middle where sniper is and you have the same basic map) Valhalla, Coagulation, Blood gulch (Long distance base battle, Trench style) Bungie absolutely loves spiritual successors and will work them to death.
Uh if you listen to the the most recent Bungie podcast (I think) they talk about putting down the Hang 'Em High map and designing over that. I don't really see much similarities but I do remembering them saying that. But on the subject of the OP I would vote Boarding Action. Easily my favorite Halo CE map. It worked great for everything. CTF is awesome, I would just say make sure you can't use grenades or anything to get the flag across like in the original. Also Snipers is perfect for this map. 2 teams shooting from ship to ship would be epic, Rockets might be cool too. I could see Bungie not wanting to remake this because they try to be a bit more realistic now, so they might not went a map were you are in the vacuum of space. Also Chiron TL-34. This map is just plain awesome. It was so hectic and really worked well with any number of players. Prisoner is a really cool map, though I feel Citadel might have gotten some inspiration from it, with the walkways on the edge and rockets on center platform. Hang 'Em High. Not Tombstone. Enough said.
Headlong NEEDS a remake. This is because Headlong has gameplay like no other map. It supports BTB in a pretty compact, yet tall environment. It gives such a great sensation to seeing people having firefights on rooftops and in the streets. I loved being able to have sword fights on the construction zone catwalk and jumping into the windows of buildings from there. The only update that would need to happen would be the removal of going on the rooftops of the buildings that are not accessible unless you have a banshee.
a sexylicious boarding action is in order as well as an ivory tower. Am I the only one who liked boarding action and ivory tower? I only saw one other person interested in ivory tower and none for boarding action D:
I love those maps, Ivory tower is like the "Guardian of Halo 2" ... or it would be if Lockout or Midship werent there... (but those were already remade)
Surely you like Highground due to the game artists choosing to be creative in creating an original and fresh 1 sided objective map instead of following ideas from maps from previous games? That being the case, why not trust them again to use their improved skills and experience and make a fresh, new and better map? This remake bandwaggon is stupid, it's not even about nostalgia, it's just praising Halo when it's not needed.
i just Would like a more detailed High Ground like you know more extensive with a few more doors opened