I am not upset that Blackout is the way it is. I am stating that I am disappointed with how Bungie portrayed this as a remake of Lockout in almost every sense. I read every weekly update and listen to every podcast, and I was expecting, along with some of the rabid fans at Bungie.net, a more faithful remake than what we received. I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT BLACKOUT AS A MAP IN AND OF ITSELF. I am only complaining about the portrayal of this map by Bungie. For the record, I think Blackout is a perfectly playable map, and none of my gripes have to do with the gameplay I have experienced on it thus far. It is a fine map. BUT, it is NOT LOCKOUT. I am of the opinion that this map should not have been labeled as a remake, but as a map "inspired" by Lockout. Again, this is an argument on semantics, which is not as important as gameplay, but I never stated to hate Blackout. The remake to me is like putting a 3 foot lift kit and giant off-road tires on a mid-size sedan like a Toyota Camry, and still calling it a "family car." How the -blam!- is Grandma gonna mount that beast to ride shotgun? It just doesn't work. Or like stuffing a piece of lettuce and tomato into a 1/2 pound chili-cheese burger and calling it "a balanced meal." Semantics people, come on! ...Wait, what are we talking about again? --dc
Finding a nice custom game on halo 2 would be hard. Matchmaking would also be hard. And last time I checked, you can't forge on Halo 2. That's three reasons why we needed it- straight off the top of my head.
lmao dc that is great. Kind of blind sighted me on wth you were arguing about, but hey, it was funny!
lol thx. I realized that people were not actually understanding what I was trying to say, so I also updated the OP with a little bit of a clearer message. Hopefully we can stay on topic. Whether you think Blackout is a good map or not, this thread does not concern this matter. A slightly more serious comparison, again using cars. If you are restoring a classic car in your garage, and decide to add a spoiler and Xenon headlights (those obnoxiously bright blue headlights you see on luxury cars sometimes) when the original model did not have such things, how do you think the rest of the classic car community is going to view your restoration? Not with open arms, my friend. You will be castrated and your car will be set on fire, Recon-armor style. Well, maybe not that last part, but the classic car community will not take the remake seriously, and you won't be able to enter it in any classic car contests. At least that's my experience when I go with my dad to those shows. And I think that's the point we (Bungie.net rabid fans included) are trying to make. Go ahead and call Blackout anything you want - fantastic, improved, brilliant, horrible, no comment - but DO NOT call it a Lockout remake. That's all I'm sayin', ya heard? lol. Hopefully people don't take this TOO seriously and flame me, but I believe I have a valid point, and I wish to voice it here. Thank you, --dc
If you guys want Lockout play Halo 2. If you want Forge and new experiences play Halo 3. And if you're drunk play Halo 1
Blackout is a remake of Lockout. You are saying that it isn't a remake because there are a couple of "jumps" missing. How the hell does that make it go from being a remake of, to a map inspired by? It has the exact same layout, all of the original weapon placements. Even the fusion coils are in the same spot. The only thing different from Lockout is these 3 (I think it was 3) jumps they removed, the new equipment they added, and the new textures. Just because of these 3 things you are saying it is not a good remake? Be honest now. Did you just want them to directly port over a map, and then pay 3 dollars on something like that, just so you can forge on it and play some custom games? I wouldn't. A direct port isn't worth 3$ because almost no work went into it compared to other maps they make. If you have to pay 3$ for Ghost Town, which is completely new and really has no reference to any other halo map. Wouldn't paying 3$ for a direct port feel like a rip off? Also you seem to be the only person that I know of running around saying "Blackout IS NOT Lockout! I was extremely disappointed with the "port" Blackout that they are trying to pass off as Lockout. So dissappointed..." You are disappointed and saying that it isn't a good remake because a few jumps are missing? The reason it is somewhat different is because they couldn't directly import the map into the game. They had to start from scratch. But even still, it has the same layout, and the same weapon placements. So why does the absence of 3 (again, this is from what I remember) jumps make? Why does that make it an unfaithful remake of Lockout? Do you really want them to try again, and then we will have 3 maps which are remakes of Lockout? Blackout is Lockout. Stop whining that your few precious jumps are missing, and move on. Stop saying they didn't make it the same when they did. Blackout is the same as Lockout. Your just to damn picky.
It's great. Of course, I'm still failing to adjust to it right now. I got a 2 kills in one game, agh. Yeah, I'd say it's pretty faithful to its predecessor.
Actually, if Bungie had a map distribution system akin to Rock Band or Guitar Hero (selling individual maps and/or "packs" of maps for individual pricing, for example), having both ports and new maps mixed in there, I would definitely purchase BOTH of the aforementioned maps if I had the opportunity. Every Halo 1 map with blockier polygons in all their retro glory, Halo 2 maps, and yes, every new Halo 3 map, would be on my hard drive if I had the chance to play them in Halo 3. I would have the original Lockout, as well as the modified Lockout, aka Blackout because I would want to see the changes. Imagine how much money Bungie would make with this type of distribution system. Backwards-compatability made the playstation uber-popular, why not apply it to a software title? And with digital distribution being the way of the future, I don't see why not. Of course, this is a pipe dream and will never happen due to Bungie's Matchmaking system and the necessity to release limited maps in "packs." However, the fact still remains that a lot of Halo purists would really enjoy a direct port of Lockout. Three dollars? $3??? That's chump change in the grand scheme of things, and it would be more than worth it. Last I counted, there were four more votes for "No" (check the poll). So that would make five people, with me being the most vocal about it, of course. --dc
I agree with dc on most things he goes around saying, and he wouldn't make this topic for the sake of arguing, so he has a valid point. Blackout in NO way shape or form feels the same as lockout. Sure it's got the same basic structure, but the game has changed. No one goes around using SMG and pistol (I did the other night, brought back some of the feel). Shotty to lift area seems just wrong. Why does the BR tower seem huge and the Sniper tower tiny as hell? Jumps that took skill are now basically walkable. Maybe im exaggerating or maybe I'm wrong, but some things don't feel right. You can see over the edge..ugh..you fall off easier..it's made of metal. Is it faithful structure wise? Yes..is it faithful gameplay wise? No. I think gameplay counts for more.
That is the most important point. It seems to me on the original lockout that the sniper ramp/ tower was the biggest hot spot on the map, but now if I camp over there no one even goes over there. Also, the sniper is not as important as it once was, the sword and shotgun dominate the game. If you look at my heat maps (here) It seems most of my kills are on the front and back sides of the BR tower. Also, the sniper only has 5 kills, while the sword and shotty have more (ignore the rockets- I played a game of it and had 17 kills). I am sure other people would see similar results, unless I play weird or something:squirrel_blush:
Thanks, Christopher, for seeing that I am not just arguing for the heck of it. I'm aware of the flame-fest that is the Bungie forum, and I by no means want to emulate that on this site. I try to back my claims with evidence, and I intend to take some compare/contrast screenshots to show you what I mean. Jumps, gameplay, and overall feel are just a little too different for me to call it the same. And again, I will state that I am not bashing Blackout as a map (I actually like it). Just the fact that it is NOT Lockout (Bungie stated over and over that this remake was going to look and feel just like Lockout; I disagree). Oh, and NO SUPER-JUMPS, WTF?!?! lol. <----{only a joke, calm down peoplez} --dc
I'm not just flaming you. I am giving my own evidence and facts and voice as to why I think you can't say it isn't the same as Lockout. I understand what you guys are saying. There may be little things that have changed, but overall, when I play and see Blackout, I think Lockout. It all feels exactly the same to me. Now everyone is different, so I really can't use that to my advantage. But you will probably find that 25% of the people think Blackout is the same as lockout. 25% don't. and the other 50% really don't care.