I just saw the new disney earth movie... I don't see how anything in that movie is just there because of a huge explosion that no one no one witnessed i mean there is this freaky bird in there, It's wings look like a dress when its dormant, then it spreads them and creates like a weird oval shape around it's head and there is a big blue glowing stripe in it, Now i have no idea how the bird just happened just like that. And the cheetah. Man those things are fast. Again, I don't see how that wasn't made by God or something. and the Northern Lights were shown in the movie, Explain the fricking Northern Lights, Go ahead and try, You'll fail but you can try. The stuff shown in that movie did not just explode into existence. God made it... And he made you too. But you just won't accept that
Wow, ok.. The Northern Lights do have an explanation. It has to do with the sun. I am not going into detail for you because it seems that you have a lot to learn about science. I am not really sure how old you are, so I won't hold most of the things you said against you. I really feel that our schools are backwards. They focus on too may BS topics and not enough on the topics that our society really needs. Again, It's not your fault you think the way that you do. It a combo of society, school and what your parents taught you. Again, I am not insulting you.. I just really think that you should study up on some basic science before you claim you have all the answers. Quick fact: Evolution has been occurring for billions of years.. It is hard for most people to comprehend it in a short time. Please try to have more of an open mind. This goes to all members of this board. I said this before and I will say it again, this thread is going no where. People don't want to change. Some people believe everything that they are told. They won't change their minds. It's just the way it is.. That is why we still have god and religion on this earth. We don't need it, but most people think we do. This thread should be locked now. I know it brings the forum a lot of members and attention, so therefore I guess it's beneficial, other than that it is a waste of time because some people just don't want to be changed.
Birth defects, disease, starvation, an over-active reproductive system, one hole for breathing and eating, sharks, cancer, etc.
Holy crap, I can't believe I just read that with a straight face. First of all, that's for mating purposes. The bird has that because way back before that species existed, one bird was born with a mutation that caused it to be more attractive to possible mates, and so it procreated more. As a result, there were a lot more birds with that mutation that were more likely to procreate. Deviate/extrapolate from there, and we have that species today. I'm not even going to bother with Northern Lights. If you couldn't even be bothered to google up the explanation for it, I doubt you'll bother to read an explanation I write up. Still, here's a few links for you to examine before you embark on that difficult task called research. Typical Course of Study - 1st Grade Science Scientific reasoning
Without the bubonic plague we would have never reached the Renaissance, without birth defects mothers would do drugs and not care about their bodies. Without an over-active reproductive system there would be no human race considering that nearly 1000 years ago the population was 100,000,000 people. Sharks balance nature, Cancer balances the human population. One hole for breathing and eating is how we are supposed to look like. Once again Perfection has multiple standards.
Without the Christian Dark Ages we wouldn't have needed it. No...you don't need to produce 10 million sperm per day in a perfect system. There are better ways to reproduce. Sharks was a joke. The human population shouldn't need balancing in a perfect system. Dolphins. Perfection creates perfection. Multiple standards do not exist in objective perfection, which you advocate. By saying perfection has multiple standards you are saying objective perfection does not exist while advocating it. Bad teeth, loss of eye sight, paralysis, pests, stinky farts, being warm-blooded, Malaria, etc.
Do you really think it would have mattered which religion was dominant for the bubonic plague to happen. Only one sperm makes it into the egg regardless? So we still only have one infant every nine months. A population of 6,500,000,000 needs balancing, once again this could be the perfect system. Dolphins live underwater though, they need that hole to make their lives more comfortable or efficient. I can look at this world and call it perfect compared to the other worlds of the Universe, you can bring up malaria and call it imperfect... Responsibility, part of growing up, you learn to take care of yourself when you have bad teeth. Loss of eye sight is a natural process that happens as you turn old, which can be cured. Paralysis, we should be glad that we are more fortunate and it teaches us a moral. Pests, human population balance. Stinky Farts, lolz. Being Warm-blooded is a good thing so I don't get this one. Malaria is also a human population balance.
Don't forget mosquitoes, I hate those little ****ers. Radiant you're clearly missing the point. The point is that not-knowing how something came about does not automatically point to God. It only means you don't know, in other words: ignorance. Also, looking at history, I don't think you can objectively say it points to God.
*facepalm* Obviously yes. Despite the fact that the Bubonic plague didn't cause the Dark Ages the Romans did an excellent job at prevent a pandemic and as soon as it falls the whole damn world gets it. As a result of Christianity, the big thinkers of the early medieval ages(450 AD to 1085 AD) were theologians, who were interested in understanding the makings of the spiritual universe and our place within it, rather than the details of the physical universe. The Black Death ended in 1350; the Renaissance began in the 17th century... Wasted energy, rape, sexual assault caused by the overproduction of hormones and sperm. No it couldn't. I can't accept a perfect system that allows for the death of child or birth defects to form. Even if it was population control you could just not make the person get pregnant in the first place. God increased our life spans to 900, why can't he decrease the % of times you get pregnant from vaginal intercourse? Make is equal to the death rate. The same can be said for humans. It would make our lives more comfortable, efficient and safer. It would prevent needless choking deaths. There is no such thing as perfect by comparison... Anyway. I don't think malaria is imperfect because I don't believe in the idea of perfection. BRB will finish later. --Nvm, Rusty summed it up.
@Rain - Your 'standards' of perfect aren't very perfect, nor standardized. Wouldn't it be perfect if no one died? No one would have to suffer from loss. Wouldn't it be perfect if everyone could be happy? Wouldn't it be perfect if there was no such thing as poverty? Wouldn't it be perfect if no one had to starve to death? Yet, they exist. And if there is a God, he allows it to happen. Is that perfect?
There Was a time when earth was perfect when all that stuff you listed didn't exist. I'll tell you why that all went away though.... Genesis 3:1-6 Now the Serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" The Woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from in the trees of the Garden, But God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the Garden, And you must not touch it, or you will die.'" "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, And you will be like God, Knowing Good and Evil." When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, And also desirable for gaining wisdom, She took some and ate it.She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it. See? Up until Eve ate the very fruit that God had told her not to eat. And in that instant, Sin came upon the world and therefore it was no longer perfect Bye now
"Genesis 2:9 (King James Version) 9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Knowledge of good and evil. Sin is defined as an act of disobedience from god. God is further defined as the embodiment of good (or the source of). One must assume that sin is evil because disobedience to good ONLY leads us to evil. For Adam and Eve to know of sin they would have had to have the knowledge of good and evil and the prerequisite of that was to eat of the tree, so prior to eating of the tree of good and evil they couldn't have possibly had knowledge of sin. In which case it is through no fault of their own that they were spiritually killed by the serpent (important to note that it isn't Satan). The blame should not have rested on the shoulders of humanity. True justice should have been carried out on god for negligent (spiritual) homicide. Most counter arguments fall along the lines of free will but what if free will isn't just a choice. What if free will is the ability to choose from two different positions intelligently and reasonably. If the second definition were true then why would Adam and Eve kill themselves just to spite someone they had no problems with. Hell, they even tried to get back into the garden so they must have regretted their mistake. If it is true that you must have knowledge of two sides before choosing to truly have free will then how could Adam and Eve possibly know what they were doing if they had no concept of right and wrong! Furthermore, if free will is just the ability to have a position freely then why are babies spared the torment of hell? They exercised the same free will as everyone else yet they get off, why? It is because the second definition is true, and seeing as the second definition is true god is guilty of negligent homicide. Negligent Homicide is defined as criminal negligence. "Criminal negligence" means that a person acts with criminal negligence when the person ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the alleged victim will be killed. Furthermore I look to much older aramaic texts to confirm this: "9 وَاستَنْبَتَ الرَّبُّ الإِلَهُ مِنَ الأَرْضِ كُلَّ شَجَرَةٍ بَهِيَّةٍ لِلنَّظَرِ، وَلَذِيذَةٍ لِلأَكْلِ، وَغَرَسَ أَيْضاً شَجَرَةَ الْحَيَاةِ، وَشَجَرَةَ مَعْرِفَةِ الْخَيْرِ وَالشَّرِّ فِي وَسَطِ الْجَنَّةِ." This translates to: "9 Regerminate and the Lord God of the earth every tree Bahiyyah to consider, and delicious to eat, and also the implantation of a tree of life, tree of knowledge of good and evil in the middle of paradise." Good and evil and knowledge are still preserved but why stop there? Let's do the original Hebrew. "ט וַיַּצְמַח יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים, מִן-הָאֲדָמָה, כָּל-עֵץ נֶחְמָד לְמַרְאֶה, וְטוֹב לְמַאֲכָל--וְעֵץ הַחַיִּים, בְּתוֹךְ הַגָּן, וְעֵץ, הַדַּעַת טוֹב וָרָע." This translates to: "And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Thanks.
If no one died there would be over-population leading to an imperfect world. So regardless of how you look at it imperfect is perfect. The fact that there is death to stop us from over-populating is perfect. There us no standard for perfect, and you can't standardize it.
We wouldn't be ABLE to over-populate if we didn't need resources to live, or there was an infinite supply of resources, or if the Earth had no shortage of inhabitable areas.
You all are thinking about perfection in the totally wrong way. You're confusing "perfect" with "good". Wouldn't it be "good" if the population was balanced? Wouldn't it be "good" if no one died? Wouldn't it be "good" if there weren't disease, cancer, sharks, etc.? However this is not what it means to be perfect. To be perfect is to be of the highest quality. For all you know we could be in the highest quality universe possible, only your arbitrary standards of good are getting in the way of your view. So I'll pose the question, What if we are in the perfect system? As in we are in a system that's goal and future is to be perfect. Let's take evolution. Is not it's function to create organisms most suited for the environment, in other words the perfect organisms for the environment? And I'm sure you would agree that evolution is currently at work, therefore perfection has not been reached yet, in which case you would be correct in saying the world isn't perfect as of right now(but with wrong reasons). You might say the perfect system would satisfy it's goal instantly, but this is just another arbitrary standard to which you are claiming perfection, because it is something that we value, promptness. So please show me something wrong with the system and I'll cede the point that the universe is perfect(lol personally I wouldn't try seeing as how you'll be essentially saying the universe doesn't work). Otherwise God is perfect because he created perfection. You could always say that god didn't create the universe, but you don't know that for sure. I'm just saying that God can be perfect and have created the universe.
I haven't been in this thread, but hopefully I'm not just restating something someone else said... There's a reason life isn't perfect, you know.
5 and 4 posts above you. But honestly, do you really think that that is a logical and plausible explanation for why there is "evil" in the world?
"ט וַיַּצְמַח יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים, מִן-הָאֲדָמָה, כָּל-עֵץ נֶחְמָד לְמַרְאֶה, וְטוֹב לְמַאֲכָל--וְעֵץ הַחַיִּים, בְּתוֹךְ הַגָּן, וְעֵץ, הַדַּעַת טוֹב וָרָע." Good to see you looked up the Hebrew but there's no nekkudot (vowels, the little things on the bottom, along with any commas or periods) in the original Hebrew...there still isn't in proper Torahs. That means that you can interpret much different if you read it differently. Also, Hebrew doesn't follow English's language pattern, it's more kind of backwards English (which is why you find people from that area having a hard time translating into English and vice versa). The problem with popular English translaterations is that they're always biased towards whoever did it...from what I know, the most common one was done by a Christian priest. It's not completely off, though...