No, I understand what you're saying. The Bible helps you find purpose in your life and provides a reason for you to be "good." Jesus taught concepts that would probably make the world a better place. What I don't understand is why we can't apply his concepts without believing in a God to make it possible.
I...never said you had to believe in God to make it possible. My view is different from the classic view, so I can see it getting confused at some points. IMO, I don't care if there's a God...if there is, I should be already doing enough good, if there isn't...who cares? Still doing good. At least the idea is.
Again, the problem I see with this still remains. You're only doing "good" because you fear the wrath of God. When you say "I should be already doing enough good" it makes it sound like someone's keeping tally of it. I don't understand why fear is necessary to get people to be decent.
Wait, what? I don't "fear the wrath of God". I just said that I'm doing good stuff just because I believe it's the right thing to do, and if there's a Heaven and God and all that, then great, if not, so what? At least I made a difference, even if it's small. It's pretty much the opposite of fear.
You don't have to believe in God to be a good person. Can't people hold doors open for each other, say please and thank you, without thinking God will smite them for their wrong doing. I do nice thing for many people and I don't believe there is a higher being who has created everything.
I understand what shiruken is getting at. Hes trying to say that alot of people need someone powerful to tell them not to be a bad person, in order for them to listen. So if they arent being a good person, they are threatened to go to hell. This brings fear to them, so they give up their old ways and try and change so they dont go to hell. This is how alot of people are, even though you might not be ,insane. EDIT: btw when i say insane I'm talking about Insane54
Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Since we're on the topic of beliefs and I felt I needed to add relevance to the thread, I'll go out openly and state I'm a theist who believes in evolution. Now, the thing with the Bible (Genesis in particular) is that it doesn't say how God created it, it says just that He did. Now, by what method? My answer is evolution. Most people I know are shocked when I say that, thinking that evolution and God are mutually exclusive. So, I believe more of a "God put the universe into motion," beginning what was there, but then letting the big bang, then eventually evolution and its subcategories do everything its done so far. I can't be bothered to believe in the entirety of creation or intelligent design, most of it is too stupid. Would this rather fit in the Creation vs Evolution thread? Probably, but I needed to post Godwin's Law.
It questions it, but it also questions old theories in evolution as well. It questions all aspects of our beginnings. But I draw the line when someone says it only backs up atheists. Well, I believe evolution is God's way of hiding or masking what he himself did. That's the only way that he could "divide" people. (this general division being: followers and non-followers) Okay... I don't view evolution as "God's trick"... I view it more as a sort of "diversion" for those who lack faith. It's not to be mean against people who question their faith, but more for God's advantage. Evolution is God's tool in the garden of faith.
So you're basically saying you think one of the most important scientific theories is all bullshit a god made up to hide its existence. Once again, a Douglas Adams quote... "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Evolution is an amazing process that occurs through some of the most interesting mechanisms in nature. Why do you feel that it needs to be controlled? Are you afraid of the possibility that everything in your life exists simply because of chance?
It's a possibility, finding out where we came from is not important to society, what's the point? Wasting Billions of dollars to discover something that will most likely never help us in anyway except for the addition of a section in our Science Books. Those Billions of dollars could have been used for education. Knowledge is great to have, but what do you think will happen when we know "too much" If anything finding out where this universe originated from will leave us more confused then before. If you look at Evolution carefully you notice it has flaws, if evolution only gives animals what it needs to survive we would only need the intelligence of a five year old to survive as a species, look at the other primates and you will notice their intelligence is weaker. Why did our process of evolution give us intelligence instead of strength? Why is it that no other species had intelligence over Strength, why is it just us? Why is our intelligence so superior compared to anything and everything else on this planet? These are key faults with Evolution, we have much, much more then is needed to survive. While all the other animals have exactly what they need. How can a Garden be Beautiful if it has no Fairies to maintain it? Evolution makes no sense, why do we have a five phalanges, why not two? Why do we have superior intelligence if Evolution is supposed to be steady? Why has everything else stayed behind and only we have truly advanced?
"Mithraism was one of the major religions of the Roman Empire which was derived from the ancient Persian god of light and wisdom. The cult of Mithraism was quite prominent in ancient Rome, especially among the military. Mithra was the god of war, battle, justice, faith, and contract. According to Mithraism, Mithra was called the son of God, was born of a virgin, had disciples, was crucified, rose from the dead on the third day, atoned for the sins of mankind, and returned to heaven." Why doesn't anyone recognize that Mithra and others preceeded Jesus? And they all share the same characteristics.
Well, in simple, abusive terms... yes. How did I know if I used garden in a metaphor I'd get this exact quote in a reply? I'm well aware of this quote, so I'll ask, why not? To think we've come this far from completely nothing is rather foolish. The odds of you and me talking at this moment in "endless" time, is about 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%. The odds are, there is a God, because the odds are, we are the only form of life to have ever existed within the last 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+ years. Me being afraid that I'm alive because of chance, is like saying a bear is afraid that it could breath inside a pool of liquid nitrogen along with a thousand hungry sharks swimming around it. The chances of evolution being only evolution are so incredibly negative. Believing in a higher form is 1,000,000,000,000 times not only easier, but more believable than thinking evolution is the only way we exist today. The chance of this life being as it is, is like finding a neutrino in an area the size of the sun. /rant
I believe us talking is amazing. That us two conversing over the internet, the possibility of us being born to be the people we are is an infinitesimal number. Think of how your parents met, and made you, or their parents, or their parents, etc. Life is a beautifully organized thing, happening on pure random acts. Finding a neutrino on a sun may be a difficult chance, but there is still the chance of finding it. And especially with the vastness of our galaxy other life is not only possible but a guarantee. There doesn't necessarily have to be a God for there to be life.
To someone who doesn't understand higher level biology, chemistry, or physics. Yes. What are you using to calculate this percentage? Again, how the hell are you calculating this number? And how do you know that we are the only form of life (i assume you meant highly intelligent life) to have existed? There is a very very good chance intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Universe, we just haven't found it yet. 1) Bears aren't capable of feeling fear. 2) Liquid nitrogen would freeze both the bear and the sharks There is no such thing as a negative probability. And once again, where are you getting the information to determine this "negative probability?" Ahhhh! So we finally meet the beast! It's easier to believe in something made up than believe something you don't understand. How will mankind ever advance with that kind of thinking? You clearly don't know what a neutrino is. At any second more than 50 trillion neutrinos emitted by the sun are passing through your body. So there's a pretty god damn big chance of that happening. ER1C0, before you try to use a scientific or mathematical argument against something, be sure to actually know what you're talking about. If you don't even bother to do a little bit of reading, then you come off as one of those people that just spurts unsupported claims and drastically weaken your argument.
Believing in evolution vs. God is like believing a cow can jump over the moon vs. a spaceship can fly over the moon. You may claim that God is far-fetched... when in reality, your 'evolution is evolution and nothing more' theory is about 1,000,000,000 times more far-fetched.
Quick question: Have you ever taken a single science class? Have you actually learned about the theory evolution and the mechanisms that drive it? I think that without at least a general knowledge of these issues, you have absolutely no capability to carry on a meaningful debate on evolution.
Um.... what are you saying yes to? You're basically saying saying that a cat can fly in space... but you haven't found evidence yet. You're only supporting my argument. That's a definite understatement. That's a definite overstatement. I find it funny that you imply science is the good guy who can't be understood in all of this, then imply that God is a mindless theory that has no background. My way of thinking is that God created evolution. We as figures created in God's form, are given the go ahead to at least understand evolution, but are not given the "green light" to go around saying evolution is evolution without giving God recognition. Yup. There is a very very big chance that our form of life is the only form to be at its current place in "advancement" (whether it be technology, culture, etc..). I have a feeling that you don't understand what I'm saying. Target the words, not the person. Shut up. Don't target me personally, okay? It's a debate. Just because I don't believe the same thing as you, does not mean you can go make assumptions and throw them in my face. Edit: Now I'm done fore the day. It seems as if some people need to cool off.
How do you know this? What are you using to determine this statement? What gives humanity the right to claim that it is the only sentient species in the Universe? You have absolutely no basis for your statements. I do understand what you're saying. I am also realizing that you have absolutely no knowledge on the matters of evolution or astrophysics. You cannot continue to use that as a shield from the debate. It is quite evident that you don't know what you're talking about. I don't care what you believe. I'm not targeting you personally. I'm simply stating that based on my interpretation of your arguments, you have absolutely no knowledge of the issues of evolution or astrophysics. Maybe if you'd take some time to read up on it, you could attempt to solidify your argument with some actual facts rather than just making **** up. But please realize that I really don't care what you may choose or not choose to believe. Everyone's entitled to his/her beliefs and who am I to judge. But if you continue to bastardize the workings of science, I am compelled to object. I've seen you use this statement multiple times to avoid continuing a loosing argument. Why do you run away?
I'm saying that there probably isn't another form of life on some random planet that has formed exactly like us. That simple statement was not very convincing. Look, please explain that I have "absolutely no knowledge on the matters of evolution or astrophysics" instead of claiming I don't. I use "childish" metaphors so that everyone can understand what I'm saying. Maybe I'll resort to my "infamous" dialogue: Person 1: I don't think pigs fly. Person 2: You have absolutely no knowledge on the matters of evolution or astrophysics. Person 1: Wait... what? If that's what I need to do, then I'll do it. Moar dialoguez?? Person 1: Okay, I'm going for the day so that people can cool off. Person 2: Bye -one day later- Person 1: Okay, I'm going again so that people can cool off ... again. Person 2: I've seen you use this statement multiple times to avoid continuing a loosing argument. Person 1: Uhh... okay then... (I'm just having a good time with this is all) So I needed to clear that up before I left.. I'll be back tomorrow.