...but that's all based off opinion. He may look like he wants you to pet him, but you'll regret it when he's clawed out your eye. Did I ever say science is religion?
ERICO, he clearly answered your question, then you come back with that crap, so i'll make it clear. Cats-can-think. They have memory, they can learn and they can understand certain things. The "scientists" are right.
My point was you don't always know about cats just from looking at them. Yes, "the scientists" are correct, but my 2nd point was that you you listen to scientists without question, yet you don't seem to learn first hand. Learning is half the part, and you can easily learn with Christianity, so It's a much more personal and pure way of thinking.
Why are they mutually exclusive? Some aspects of science can't be observed, they can't be learned first hand. It's up to science to provide evidence and theories to prove the things in life we can't see. I don't listen to scientists without question, sure you can take that route, but if you really want to ask the questions "Why?" "How?" "When?", those scientists will back up their theories with evidence. Science taught us to use our analytical minds to solve problems and observe our environment and make theories based off those observation. We can also learn through examples. You can recreate experiments from many scientific trials. Even in High school (middle school also) biology and chemistry you take many labs to learn first hand how the scientific method works. Here's one of my favorite quotes: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." -Abraham Lincoln
Yes, why is your religion so exclusive? Why is it RIGHT?. Can you prove this? Nope. You can't. You can just shove a book written thousands of years ago and "pray" that our faith will wrap around yours. You a a closed minded thinker no matter how you counter evidence because you are afraid to look at the world the way atheists do, which would be to justify or look for true evidence. Your debate that your having against several others simply could not be won because you try to make US see from your point of view. Most likely, we already have. Now you have to do the same for us.
I believe that before this thread can even continue, the religious people in this thread should explain to us why the religion they believe in is so much better than any other religions in the world (Zoroastrianism, etc.) If they can't even prove that the specific god they are arguing for is correct, then they shouldn't be arguing that there is a god in the first place.
You think just because we have Religion we will refuse any kind of science. Look around you, Christians and everyone from almost every religion use science and its benefits Christians are willing to accept Evolution and the Big Bang Theory, we are not stuck 2,000 years in the past. Here I am using a computer to debate. I've been an atheist, and there is no point to it I never even noticed the difference from when I went christian, nothing in my life changed and I'd much rather feel like having a purpose and feeling secure about seeing my family again. You Atheists are starting to sound more cocky every day on this thread. You'd much rather accept that once you die you will never see your parents or your wife or your children. You'd much rather accept that if someone was tortured to death they won't have a joyous after life. Instead nothing happens to them that's how their life ends. Tortured and screaming. What's worse is that you don't understand this debate, we are debating about Christianity because it would be impossible to debate about all the religions in this planet. Just so you're clear The Atheists are the one's attacking on this thread, we are defending we don't need to see from your point of view in the first place we don't have to prove God exists unless we were the attackers. So really... I could not be more pissed of right now, in fact this entire wall of text has more opinions in it then any other post I've made on this thread.
You are the ones who have the burden to prove your statements. You are the wants making the extraordinary claims, not us. The difference between you and me is that you want to believe in an afterlife. You want to believe something comforting and that there is some kind of higher power protecting you, but no matter how much you wan't it, that doesn't make it true. Atheists people who understand their own morality, can accept that the world isn't fair, and move on with their lives without needing a crutch to keep them happy and optimistic. All you can hope for in the world is that you aren't one of those poor souls who is tortured to death.
Personally, I don't care what people believe in the privacy of their own homes. If you want to solemnly rub blue mud in your navels, knock yourselves out. This is rarely the case however, especially with the Abrahamaic religions (Catholicism, Christianity, Islam). No, they get incredibly het up with righteous indignation if you don't do exactly as they do, feel the same shame with their natural urges that they do, and follow the same several thousand year old laws as them. They live their lives as if someone is watching them, and will judge them if they don't do everything they can to stamp out conflicting beliefs around them. They see no problems in legislating that homosexuality, abortion, and even some scientific research be made illegal; they wish to teach their children fairy tales instead of facts; and they want to destroy dissent. This is why I'm an anti-theist. It's such a politically correct society these days, that noone can stand up to these frauds and liars without being shouted down or pooh-poohed by the mores. Well, **** that. Seriously, there is no debate. There's no "Oh, you believe there's no god, and I believe in a god, we can just agree to disagree". This is crap; If you believe in a god, you are wrong, and I am right to not believe. Simple as that. Allowing a debate to take place is one of the biggest fallacies a scientific mind can commit. Don't apologize for your knowledge, and don't try to make accomodations. Some of you will say that this is too harsh. Why? Just because someone believes something and is outspoken about it, they have no right to be respected for it. I might believe I was the greatest heart surgeon in the world, but I sure as hell hope noone lets me near an operating room. In this society, you can say you believe in unicorns, and as long as you're loud and say it with appropriate gravitas, who's going to say you're wrong? Believing in god is the very same thing. It's an outdated, anachronistic view of the world that should have been left behind long ago. Imagine where culture and science would be now if the Greeks and Roman achievements weren't obliterated by fearful, stagnant god lovers. Look in your minds, you know it to be true.
You can't just come in here and say, "I'm wrong, you're right, too bad stfu" Especially because this IS a debate, and the point of a debate is to listen to each side and argue about it, not declare a winner without having used any sort of proof. The reason the atheists haven't won this debate yet is because theories like Evolution, the Big Bang, the String theory, etc... still have some flaws in them, so they can't be said to have disproven God yet. Please don't come in here and arrogantly disrupt the current conversation, and then end by declaring yourself correct.
I second that. Just shut up. You obviously have no idea what it means to be a Christian. Because of personal experience. I know what goes down when you're at the bottom of the food chain, I know how much life can suck ass.. But during those moments you can see the light. When my grandma was on a plane to a hospice, she asked my dad if she was going to die. My dad only had one answer, and when she heard that yes, she didn't have a care in this whole ****ed up world. Now that's a true Christian. And Purexist, you're a retard.
Of course scientific theories have flaws. Testing and observation are constant and ongoing, and the results added to our base of knowledge. However, this does not mean that wherever there is a gap in our scientific understanding, that you can take a look there and why, there was god all along. It simply means that science will get to it eventually. If you automatically assume that god is in those gaps, then there is no reason to continue searching for the truths. There is no such thing as supernatural happenings. If we went back in time with modern technology, we could be demigods, if we could avoid lynching, simply because science hadn't gotten that far. If god came down to earth in a burst of light and decreed that indeed he did exist, do you think scientists would jump off cliffs in shame? No. A true scientist would set about observing, categorizing, hypothesizing, and testing their ideas about the nature of god. Maybe they would theorize and then through testing find a new particle, called the lordon, or something. As for my stating that there is no debate, that's my opinion. Like I say, you can believe what you want. However, if it affects me, I will be loud and vocal about it, and fight back politically. This isn't the venue for that, I understand. I appreciate the debate, I was just ranting As for flaws in evolutionary theory, I wonder what you're referring to. If you keep on top of the debate, I'm quite certain all creationist talking points have been debunked. Of course I would appreciate hearing some new ones, it's always good to keep on my debating toes. The Big Bang theory, it is what it is, makes sense with the data available. And I'm afraid string theory has been debunked by theoretical physicists a couple of years ago, but it was a good shot. lol, Erico.. such high emotional value language, with such low value arguments! Of course we've "seen the things you've seen". The human brain is trained to pick patterns out of chaos, order out of disorder. The mind has evolved a capacity for religious awe. All those overwhelming feelings are just neurons firing excitedly in your brain. It's intense I'm sure, I feel the same thing when I'm listening to good punk or am writing intently. Evoking your grandmother probably will sway more emotional types, but it's not really that effective on objective people like me. Perhaps if you have specific questions, you could talk about that, rather than refer to me as a retard, hmmmmmm?
People, stop saying that Christians have to prove it because they have the burden of proof. In any class debate, the instigator has to prove his statements. Therefore, if an atheist instigates that God does not exist, he must prove it. In the same way if a Christian instigates that God exists, he must prove it. Just thought I would drop a note, because this has been a problem for the last, oh, what, 62 pages? (I have 40 replies per page)
I find it funny that you're basing your argument off of opinions My grandma heard she was going to die within 2 weeks, and she stays in total bliss. And you're laughing at it. How am I supposed to take it?? Oh really, have you moved to China at age 15? I don't think so. Have you had to leave your brothers, aunts, uncles, cousins, pets, house, to go somewhere you don't want to go at all? I didn't think so. So you hear scientists talk, and you go around doing what you're told. Have fun with that. I like referring to you as a retard much better, thanks.
That isn't a Christian value, it's just a smart value. There's no reason to fear death, it's not like you will ever be aware that you are dead. Personal experience means nothing- the reason why religion is so widespread is because it is extremely good at making you think it's right. Read this.
Amoeba, if this was 500 years ago and the church was still in power, then atheists would be the instigators. However, in this day and age, we know better. Attacking reality with myth is your position. Therefore, the burden of proof is on the Christians. Like I said before, just because you ignore evidence and state your cases loudly, does not mean we owe you a shred of time. The fact is, we show you the evidence, and you will not ever care. My saying there is no debate is simply a way to relieve fellow scientists... If there is nothing constructive going into the debate, there's no reason to pay attention. Why should we be dragged continually through circular logic, if you will not listen when we definitively stop the circle?
Don't mistake me, I am an atheist. But that doesn't mean I agree with every other Atheist on everything. And in this debate, I don't agree with someone who comes in and feels free to declare one side right and the other wrong without first arguing. Even though I agree with you and don't believe in a God, I don't say so and say that there is no need to debate. Just saying though.
My grandma was a Christian, and you're assuming right now. That's all you guys seem to do... I'm just going to continue laughing, and maybe we can stop being biased and start thinking with an open mind. And stop sourcing wikipedia... seriously.