Permafrost

By BlackDeath10
4v4 Slayer
7.7

Map Description

  1. BlackDeath10
    GT: Darkling Ninjas
    File: Permafrost v1
    Playercount: 4 vs 4
    Gametypes: Slayer, strongholds, ball

    Map Authors and Contributors


    Lead Design: Darkling Ninja
    Co-designers: Limey, Redemption. Sethiroth

    Design input: Fritzer, HezbollaHector, The Fated Fire, Warholic, Nitroo, Psycho Duck, A3leggedgoat, Atlas, Agentpapercraft


    Co-forgers: Eww Your Skinny, Darkling Ninja, Redemption





    Map Information and History


    Permafrost’s Long History:


    Originally called Mutant, Permafrost was one of those everyone was excited for it, but it never was completely finished or released. Many people are aware of the design and it has become one of those famous maps that was never made.


    The original Permafrost was designed over 7 years ago for the first Halo 3 MLG forge forum map pack. It was inspired by guardian, lockout. I, Sethiroth and Fritzer have all put some of our design skills into making this a good map. Here is a picture of the original sketch up

    [​IMG]





    Many people were excited and looked forward to its release. In the end it turned out to be impossible to forge on Halo 3 with the piece limitations. The fact is that Permafrost was just to far ahead of its time for Halo 3. Permafrost was put on the back burner for the first time, as we all waited for the next Halo game to be released hoping that the next forge system would be able to handle the map.


    Enter the brokenness of Halo: Reach. Permafrost was redesigned soon after the games release by me and Sethiroth. Even though we had little issues redesigning some areas, we were not able to find any solutions for the frame rate issues. In the end frame rate killed Permafrost. The forge pieces required to create Permafrost in Halo: Reach consisted of primarily frame rate heavy objects. Combine that with the long lines of sight, there was no way to make Permafrost on Halo: Reach without frame rate. Halo: reach could not handle the design either. Me and Sethiroth gave up on Permafrost and focused on our own work. Upset with the frame issues of Halo: Reach forge, frustrated with the broken and terrible game play, and busy with college I stop playing Halo and disappeared from the face of XBL and Halo for the next 2 years, leaving Permafrost and forge behind.


    Then I got my hands on Halo 4, a vast improvement over Halo: reach. Halo was once again fun for me to play. I picked back up forge, and got involved with the community once again. I practiced making maps to get use to the system while re-designing Permafrost for Halo 4. At first Halo 4 had no problem handling Permafrost, sadly enough Halo forge design had advanced so far that Permafrost was no longer light years ahead of its time. The map was first forged on Ravine, and the design was able to be tweaked. After some stress testing the map was revealed to have framerate on the longer lines of sight. So it was re-forged on the new forge islands.

    The forge island version had no noticeable framerate in testing and everything was going great. The map was featured by multiple channels, and even here on forgehub (http://www.forgehub.com/threads/mutant.145325/). The map received a lot of notoriety and positive feedback. The cartographers at the time planned it to be in multiple play list. The competitive community also loved the map The European gaming league as well as ESL where considering the map for the tournament rotations. Then the worst happened……..


    343 industries put the map under there framerate stress test and found the map to have frame rate problems. I ask the cartographers at the time what I could do about it and they said nothing. The cartographers ask 343 the same thing I ask them, and 343 told them that the map has to many long sight lines that view to many objects. These long sight lines make it impossible to make in the current forge system without frame rate. Due to this Permafrost was not able to be in match making, let alone a tournament because of the frame rate. Once again frustrated by both forge and the gameplay I left halo for 2 years and built a pc and stayed a pc gamer for 2 years.



    Enter Halo 5, after forge was released my friend who had H5 invited me over to play. I enjoyed myself, and saw what people where making so I decided to get my hands on it. I made a couple maps, getting use to the new forge system and re-hashing my knowledge of map design. I decided once again forged Permafrost.


    At this point it is just about doing the map justice. I want to make a good playing version of the map without frame rate. After all the time I have put into this design I just want one that plays well without frame rate. After much testing and tweaking I think I finally have a version of the map I am happy with.



    Map Description:


    Permafrost is a 4 tower, asymmetrical competitive map, which specializes in slayer, strongholds and oddball. Since its conception, Permafrost has been geared towards competitive game play.


    This is a fast pace asymmetrical competitive map. Rapid fighting and non-stop action is what Permafrost has to offer. The map promotes movement and team work, and demotes camping. The geometry of the map does not rely on lazy cover and/or generic geometry to provide cover for players. Providing oneself with cover will depend on taking advantage of the angles and using team support.


    Unlike most 4 tower asymmetrical maps, stalemates and polarized spawns are not an issue. Like all maps stale mates happen from time to time, but they do not last very long. The longest stalemate has been 45 seconds in my testing. The lockout problem does not exist on this map, a team will not find themselves making a hard push to a power point just to spawn in the same place over and over. (Like lift room on lockout) The spawns are dynamic, yet sensible and controllable.


    The levels on the map are balanced out well and no part of the map is underplayed. The high ground remains the coveted locations to control just like any other map, but the other levels are not without vital importance. Middle ground provides more cover, with critical shooting angels, and versatility, making middle ground a vital location to utilize properly. Low ground provides the most cover with access to flanking positions, as well as an Overshield spawn making it important to keep an eye on.


    I have to say the interactions between the towers works great as well. Almost everyone who has played the map has said they enjoyed how the towers interacted with one and other.


    Weapons
    x1 Overshield
    x1 PlasmaCaster
    x1 Shotgun (No extra clip, Slayer Only)
    x1 Hydra (1 clip, Ball and Strongholds Only)


    x2 DMR
    x2 BR
    x1 Plasma Pistol
    x1 SMG (1 clip only)
    x2 Supressor (1 clip only)

    x5 frag
    x3 plasma
    x3 splinter

Recent Reviews

  1. brune456 brune456
    10/5,
    although i never was able to see the original this map does a fine job at recreating it feels like lockout all though with the variety of guardian, great map in general keep it up.
    Apr 23, 2016
  2. SecretSchnitzel SecretSchnitzel
    4/5,
    And the heavens parted and lo! Darkling floated down from his golden chariot to the moral realm so that he could once more forge the greatest map there ever was! The legendary bridgeworks map to end all bridgeworks map. The one map destined for MLG greatness. Permafrost.

    Alright, I really didn't want to leave a review on this, as I prefer not leaving reviews on bad maps and upsetting bad forgers, but the obnoxiousness of Darkling's thread has demanded it. There's a lot you can find issue with for the map itself, especially the aesthetcs and overall presentation, but I'll try to focus on gameplay related aspects.

    Pathing: What pathing? Literally every part of the map is connected to the rest. Like ring-around-the-rosey? There's plenty of that for you! Like chasing players around countless corners and having no idea where they darted off too when you lose sight of them? There's plenty of that too! There is literally not structural "flow" or pathing to the map. Additionally, some of the "routes" (if you choose not to clamber the many various "shortcuts" available) are excessively winding and full of 90 degree turns.

    Scaling: The size of the map overall is fine. It teases the Pistols RRR nicely between tower to tower, but that's about all that's scaled nicely on this map. Various areas of the maps can be either extremely cluttered and claustrophobic, or wide open and massively exposed. Some "paths" are extremely long and exposed, while others are short and littered with cover. There is no consistency across the play spaces.

    Weapons: Can't really complain about the rifles on the map, as the map is scaled to complement the Pistol's RRR. However, there are some idiotic weapon placements, such as the Shotgun in possibly one of the most campable towers on the map.

    Explosive Barrels: If you have to heavily rely on items such as explosive barrels to balance a tower, you have some serious problems.

    All in all, this is just scratching the surface. If this map were to be put under the microscope, I have zero doubt that the reviews would be even more scathing than this.

    Darkling, don't take this the wrong way. This isn't a "grudge" review. It isn't meant to "knock you down a peg". It's not meant to be spiteful. It's an honest review that I otherwise would have kept to myself. The content of the review has nothing to do with you, but my choosing to post it does. Had you not acted like an absolute tool, I would have kept my criticisms of the map to myself.
    Apr 20, 2016
  3. S0UL FLAME S0UL FLAME
    9/5,
    I thoroughly enjoyed playing this map again and again, as it never got boring. I think it's safe to say you have managed to make a map that excels at the tower gameplay better than Lockout or Guardian ever did. I hope this map goes places. Well done, Darkling.
    Apr 20, 2016

Discussion

  1. BlackDeath10

    BlackDeath10 Ancient
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    Thank you very much for the review soul flame I am happy you like it :)
     
    #2 BlackDeath10, Apr 20, 2016
    S0UL FLAME likes this.
  2. Preacher001

    Preacher001 Forerunner
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    Great work. Sorry to hear about your frustrated years of construction. It's irritating when engine issues keep you from you enjoying the gameplay on a map you've designed. I myself have a sorted past with one of my maps and I'm glad to say the new engine has made it possible to play without all the chop. On another one of my maps a hidden teleporter kills people during online play. It's a fraction of a second delay that causes water kills.

    I hope you intend on posting a walk-through vid.
     
    #3 Preacher001, Apr 20, 2016
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  3. BlackDeath10

    BlackDeath10 Ancient
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    I do busy with finals though, been working on the post for a bit so I decided to push it. Video coming soon : )
     
    #4 BlackDeath10, Apr 20, 2016
    Preacher001 likes this.
  4. Xandrith

    Xandrith Promethean
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    Swiss cheesy goodness! If you're into that sort of thing...
     
    #5 Xandrith, Apr 20, 2016
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  5. BlackDeath10

    BlackDeath10 Ancient
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    Well the test we just ran was awesome, we tested it side by side with two full lobbies, one pro and one casual both thought the map was great. If a handful of people don't like it I am fine with that, the fact is most people from casual all the way to the pro level love the map. This is not just based on the lobbies tonight but all the lobbies I have tested it in over the last month.

    So yes I agree, it's gold like cheese ! glad you like it to :)
     
    #6 BlackDeath10, Apr 20, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2016
  6. RoastingLamb

    RoastingLamb Legendary

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    Thoughts:
    • I feel like the structures are way too close together. Its very claustrophobic. I have no breathing space I guess. It could be scaled up a bit. This version right now seems made for 2 v 2 rather than 4 v 4.
    • Having some of the towers (and other structures) rotated at a angle and overlapping kinda confused me as I ran around the map. I found navigating difficult because there were no clear paths. There were lots of twists and turns on the map which I found taxing.
    • I like the look of the map. Structures are clean and the white and black really suits the buildings.
    • In terms of gameplay...
      • There are definitely parts that will be under ultilised. I don't see myself moving around the map much. I am happy staying in one tower. Middle ground is very open and I don't see myself ever traversing through it. Although, you can say the same for Lockout and Guardian.
      • No clear paths on the map.
      • I don't know where the heck I am going.
      • Weird angles all over the map made aiming hard. Lines of sights were kinda awkward. Annoyed the heck out of me.
      • Weapons seem fine. Once you scale the map up you should consider swapping out the Plasma Caster for something else.
    • I sorta like red tower and orange tower and I think they connect together nicely. However, I think you could revise the rest of the map.
    Overall thoughts? I'm kinda on the fence about this map.

    I do like Lockout/Guardian style maps. I hope you can make this map even better.
     
    #7 RoastingLamb, Apr 21, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2016
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  7. S0UL FLAME

    S0UL FLAME Mythic
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    Alright Darkling, this is something I would like you to do.

    I don't really know if you're still considering more changes after the last set you did, but if you are willing to invest a bit more time into making this map even better than it is now, then do it. There will be (and currently are) people who will voice their thoughts, whether it be to aid you or to dissuade you, but I think it's obvious that if you put the time in, you will focus more on the feedback of the people who genuinely want your map to succeed.

    Focus on each step of the way with perseverance and determination, and you will slowly climb to making this map better and better each iteration. I gave you my rating because of the fun I had on your map despite my wins and losses, but there is much work to be done before it is truly excellent. Whatever your choice is, I hope you do it with gusto.
     
    #8 S0UL FLAME, Apr 21, 2016
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  8. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
    Forge Critic Wiki Contributor Senior Member

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    I haven't played this in Halo 5 yet, so I don't have any specific feedback. I do, however, have a general observation that may or may not apply here (I don't know your entire forging history).

    I too have been around forge virtually since the beginning. I was on mlgpro.com beginning in 2004, and frequented the MLG forge forum from its inception (pretty sure I read every post that was ever made there). I was there under a different name, and primarily lurked the forge forum during the Halo 3 era, so I'm sure you'd have no idea who I am from there, but that's beside the point.

    As far as I'm concerned, that forum had the best understanding of level design during its time. I learned an enormous amount from the people there. However, as a new community we were only scratching the surface. We were like new painters just learning the basics of the color wheel (though we thought we knew more than we actually did).

    The 'tribal' knowledge of the forge community has grown immensely since then, and anyone that's failed to continue growing is going to be far behind the curve at this point (again, I don't know if this applies to you or not, it's just a general observation). This is part of the reason why there has been some backlash from your focus on past experience and accomplishments (to many, those things are meaningless. To some, it comes across as if you're proud of being amongst the best within a group that was just learning the basics). Of course, you may have an entirely different perspective on the level of community knowledge then compared to now, but I think the majority of people view it as I've explained here. So anyway, that's my basic explanation for the reaction you've been receiving here.

    Moving on to the real point I wanted to make now...
    From what I've seen, you've primarily been focusing on this one design for many years. I always admire dedication toward perfecting a design. On the other hand, I think there is something to be said for expanding horizons when it comes to level design.

    To one extreme, we have the people that pump out one design after another, not really spending an enormous amount of time on any particular project. To the other extreme, there are people like yourself that seem to focus almost exclusively on one project for LONG periods of time (years). I think that both approaches have their benefits, but neither is ideal.

    The people that I see producing the highest quality work (and I realize this is subjective) are those that find a happy medium. They experiment with wildly varying map styles. They discard ideas that don't work, and dive headlong into those that do. It seems to me that 'breadth' of knowledge and experience often leads to a greater 'depth' of understanding.

    So I guess what I'm trying to suggest, in a very roundabout way, is that perhaps you would benefit from spending some time working on something entirely different. Perhaps time spent exploring different designs would help you improve THIS design.
     
    #9 a Chunk, Apr 22, 2016
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  9. a Chunk

    a Chunk Blockout Artist
    Forge Critic Wiki Contributor Senior Member

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    Just gonna say this publicly so I don't have to message everyone... Keep personal comments off the thread please. Anything that crosses the line in this thread from this point forward will earn you a ban.
     
    #10 a Chunk, Apr 23, 2016
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  10. MultiLockOn

    MultiLockOn Ancient
    Forge Critic Banned Senior Member

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    Oh lordy ahahaha
     
    #11 MultiLockOn, Apr 23, 2016
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  11. BlackDeath10

    BlackDeath10 Ancient
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    I thank you very much for your thoughtful feedback and cleaning up the thread. I agree with what you are saying and usually I would say okay, but forge has become to drama filled for me, and has lost a lot of the fun with it. This is my last map. I have decided to focus on school, and just play halo for fun instead of forge.

    thank you for the time
     
    #12 BlackDeath10, Apr 23, 2016
  12. Goat

    Goat Rock Paper Scissors Scrap
    Forge Critic Senior Member

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    is it dairy free
     
    #13 Goat, Feb 17, 2017
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