Siddhartha Gautama directly told people how to escape the cycle of suffering and rebirth through nirvana. Jesus did not specifically tell his followers what to do in life. He may have told his disciples, but not the public. Both Judaism and Islam have linked roots to Christianity. That really doesn't count. Maybe I should have rephrased that question to, "name one religion, without roots that are related to Christianity, where a prophet explains what they're doing, and also explains what people are to do on Earth in an indirect way. "
Crap... ... ... Let's just pretend I didn't say that... ... ... So I'll just rephrase that to, "they have linked roots."
Regardless of how someone does it, the point is to get the message out. Why does it matter that Jesus gave his message indirectly? Is Buddhism wrong because their "prophet" gave specifics?
Yes cuz it proves that (in Christianity) people on earth are incapable of knowing God completely. It shows that Christians can understand a little bit, and that little bit that they do know is very personal, and they actually know what they're doing... like the cake idea I was talking about before. And, in this way, Buddhists do not have a personal God, because they're just told to do things and they have no real way of interacting with God on a very personal level.
So you're saying: Jesus' indirect message gives Christians a little knowledge of God, which in turn gives them a close personal relationship with him. Tell me how that makes sense. Also, while it might be good to maintain a relationship with God, how do you know you're doing that and not just talking to a void? Or what if God is not listening? And of course, no one can know God at all because no one has ever met him; knowing him is not tied to having religion.
Enoch So in the history of all humanity, out of the hundreds of billions of people that have been born and later died.......one guy, named Enoch, is the only one who has met God? I'd like to hear a little more about him, please.
Didnt Abraham or someone meet god? or seen him. thats how abraham got his land? havnt read the bible in a while, so sorry if im a little rusty.
Part of the debating process is the presentation of evidence to essentially teach the material you know to those that do not know. It's essential in supporting your argument. Without it your argument suffers.
One Word Debating Debating includes fleshing out your arguments. Leaving a one word debate point: ....and then getting whiny when someone asks you to elaborate your point is not debating at all. The language of the bible is so purposefully vague, and open to huge margins of interpretation. The bible says that he walked with god and was then taken away by god. These are almost definitely metaphors saying that he followed(walked with) God's principles very closely. You just agreed that throughout the entire existence of humanity.....only one man has met God, and you used Enoch to argue against the claim that no one knows god. Of course I'm going to ask about him. I'm actually surprised we haven't heard so much more about the only man in human history that's met God.
He would "like" to hear more about it. It is not my responsibility to teach what I believe in, its obvious enough you refute it at every corridor. Without me teaching you my beliefs my argument suffers? Please.. I hope you're joking. Its not up on my shoulders to tell Makisupa what I believe in, if you care enough to debate figure it out on your own. I do not need to "teach" anything, that is not my responsibility. I will gladly do my best to refute any such opposing arguments. I will not, however, teach my beliefs. If you would like to learn my beliefs, I suggest you open the Bible yourself instead of google searching "problems with the Bible" etc, etc.. I'm not whiny. If you want to learn something, I expect you to do it on your own time if you wish to debate. You should come prepared in a debate with the information required to further continue the debate without me having to get refuted because you don't believe the Bible in the first place. I also find it funny how you seem to claim that you know the Bible so well, but by reading previous arguments, it seems as if you simply copy paste arguments which you have no first hand Bible knowledge of the matter on. If you would like to know about Enoch, read the Bible yourself, don't ask me, this isn't bedtime Bible stories with aMoeba. You've got to walk into a debate knowing what you're talking about before bothering debating in the first place. What good use is it that I attempt to tell you my beliefs when no matter the circumstance you directly deny them either way? A basis for your argument also presents the false claim that one word lines are unnecessary. No, they are not. One word answers are almost necessary in given conditions. Someone asks "pepperoni or cheese pizza?" I'd say pepperoni. Its a one word answer, there is no need to elaborate any further. All the information I can tell you, I've told you. The rest is up to you. Next time, don't complain about misinformities with your beliefs. Teach us, because we don't know, because I already don't believe, teaching me would help dramatically...
What about Jesus? Jesus' indirect message starts each Christian's road towards knowing and following God. As I already said, Jesus said no human is able to completely understand God. You just don't read, do you? Just the stuff you want to read, amirite? Remember the cake idea I wrote.. oh.. 3 pages ago? Well, maybe you don't, so I'll quote it once more: Seriously? Are you seriously going to ask this question? Because if you're serious, then you know close to nothing about God and you shouldn't be in this debate.
Buddhism's teachings are like those instructions for the cake; the guider was Siddartha Gutauma. THE POINT is that why is Christianity so much better? Why do you think that Buddhists need God to have a wholesome religion? People don't always need a teacher to give them instructions you know. Humor me; answer the question. How do you know God listens to you? Complete my apparently idiotic lack of knowledge about Christianity, because I was never part of it before...
I've read your Bible so I do not require any teaching. Your argument rests completely upon your beliefs. Your belief in your god and the truth of the writings of the Bible. You cannot assume that everyone will know what you speak of, which is why you must support your case by explaining what your believe. There is a difference between teaching and supporting your argument. According to your logic, it would be perfectly legitimate for me to reply with names of theories and processes without explaining them. But who does that benefit? If someone doesn't know what it means, how likely are they to actually look it up? Explanations are always welcome and practical in debates of any kind. I certainly hope you don't write papers for English class by just throwing down the thesis and never explaining it. You always should assume your audience isn't as knowledgeable as you in your subject matter and that you will need to explain at least the most basic levels of it. I assume you know all about the theories of abiogenesis then and how inorganic molecules are perfectly capable of randomly combining into organic molecules? You shouldn't assume that your audience is knowledgeable in your topic a debate. By explaining it, you lend yourself credence and better support your argument.
No, as I already explained, he directly told his people what to do and I don't feel like quoting what I already said anymore. No, people don't absolutely need teachers, but it makes thing a lot quicker. Did you know that the first wheel was made in about [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]8,000 BC? That means it's taken our ancestors[/SIZE][/FONT] about 4,990,000 to 7,990,000 years just to create one wheel. That's just one idea. Just think how long it would have taken humanity to understand what God wants! If our ancestors had a teacher it could have taken them one year (at the very most) just to make a wheel! Teachers are important. They aren't vital, but they sure as hell help a lot. Faith. You reeeaaally should take a biblical traditions class or something so you can at least understand Christianity from a non-atheist point of view.
Pizza? It is not our job to "figure out" your beliefs on our own. It is your responsibility(if you want to be taken seriously) to make your statements using explanations, descriptions, and logic to form some type of cohesive argument. Just because many will most likely disagree with you, that doesn't mean you can debate without explanation. My suspicion is that you are hesitant to flesh out your beliefs for fear of the light of this forum revealing the illogical, contridictary nature of the bible. I've read this sentence about 12 times, and it just does not make any sense. You're telling me I need to come into a debate with information that will further the debate but without refuting you because I don't believe the bible is true. That's my position in this debate. I don't think the bible is true at all. Everything I say in here will be shaped by that. I have no idea what you were trying to get across with that sentence. I would ask you to explain yourself, but you'd probably tell me to figure it out on my own. When have I ever claimed to know the bible well? Absolutely nothing from any of my posts has been copied and pasted from anywhere else. Every word is a makisupa original. Your true reason for not elaborating is bubbling through again in this paragraph. "What good use is it that I attempt to tell you my beliefs when no matter the circumstance you directly deny them either way?" Just because someone might disagree with you, that doesn't mean you can debate without supporting your argument. If you have confidence in the beliefs you've chosen, you should have nothing to fear and put them out there on the page. Your argument style is so bizarre. Of course there are occasions in life where a one word answer is appropriate. A debate is not one of them. Nobody is taking your pizza order, we are asking you to firmly and confidently stand by your beliefs by explaining to us why they make more sense than ours. A one word response is nothing more than spam, and because of your arrogant response I am tempted to report the post as such.
1) That's not to say they can't figure it out for the ease of debate... 2) That's perfectly fine. There's no need to explain that his original statement was not true and substitute it by saying "Enoch [did]." 3) Yes, I do. Due to my nature of not debating in the creation vs evolution thread, there was almost no need to ask, as that doesn't exactly pertain to this debate. 1) I don't need a write up to explain that from the Bible's perspective Enoch met God! Its really that simple! I am not hesitant to tell you my beliefs because of contradictions (frankly I can't recall myself being contradicted in these forums), I am hesitant because you are intolerant. 2) Is it that hard to understand? Look at any modern day court law. The only person who doesn't know all the sides of the story, so he asks. However the attorney has all the information before him. The attorney should read and figure out what they are going to defend. Although the attorney could ask "I'd like to hear what my defendant has to say" at this point he should already know what his defendant is talking about. In the case of your post, you're not asking for verification, you're asking me to explain a few sentences in the Bible that could easily be accomplished by a google search. I am still questioning why you could not have done such in the first place. 3) Its easily shown in your writing. Here's what I mean when I say mis informed about the Bible and so to speak acting like you know it: ( I have already corrected you on these statements, don't bother) I will gladly present more. The whole point of saying this is that you should become educated on the matter before debating it, and I am not here to educate you on it just because you asked. There's a wiki for that and I'm sure you can find contradictions there. 4) Definitely not so. Is abiogenesis not much more complicated then a paragraph in the Bible? Or even, a sentence in the Bible? I beg to differ. But of course, with them arguing your side, its all fine and dandy. Your points are void. I DON'T NEED A SENTENCE! A one word answer is suitable! I never attempted to make sense, I simply quoted him when he said "Nobody ever met God" and I said "Enoch." Most obviously by this statement we can establish Enoch met God! I see nothing more to state, other than making it a complete sentence, which doesn't matter. Go ahead and report me for the best answer I could give, if your heart feels so inclined.